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Thread: Keystone XL Delayed

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    Default Keystone XL Delayed

    WASHINGTON — The Keystone XL pipeline from the Alberta oilsands into the Southern U.S. will be delayed so the Obama administration can study alternative routes for the controversial project.

    The U.S. administration confirmed the delay Thursday, shortly after the Canadian government had acknowledged it.

    The U.S. State department said "given the concentration of concerns regarding the environmental sensitivities of the current proposed route through the Sand Hills area of Nebraska, the Department has determined it needs to undertake an in-depth assessment of potential alternative routes in Nebraska."

    The review would take until the beginning of 2013, after which the findings would be shared with eight other U.S. agencies before a decision would be handed down, according to a statement by the department. The news was a bitter disappointment for TransCanada Corp., which had expected a positive decision by year end.

    "Up until about one o'clock this afternoon we were anticipating a presidential permit by the end of 2011," said Robert Jones, vice president of Keystone Pipelines for TransCanada.

    Calgary-based TransCanada’s project has drawn opposition from environmental groups, as well as large protests on both sides of the border from those against the “dirty” Canadian oilsands as well as those opposed to the ecologically sensitive route the line was to have taken.

    Pipeline Route

    “We are disappointed with today’s decision to delay a decision on the Keystone XL pipeline,” Andrew MacDougall, a spokesman for Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Thursday.

    “As we have consistently said, the pipeline will create thousands of jobs and billions in economic growth on both sides of the border. While disappointed with the delay, we remain hopeful the project will be decided on its merits and eventually approved.”

    Looking at alternative routes could allow the Obama administration to move the project away from the Ogallala Aquifer and the ecologically fragile Sand Hills in Nebraska.

    But such a move would potentially delay the project past the 2012 U.S. presidential election.

    State Department officials had said Wednesday that all options regarding Keystone XL were “on the table” — including the potential for rerouting the pipeline and outright denial of a permit allowing Calgary-based TransCanada to build the pipeline.

    The pipeline was to have run 2,700 kilometres from Hardisty, Alta., to refineries on the Gulf Coast of Texas, carrying as much as 830,000 barrels worth of crude oil per day.

    A spokeswoman for Harper, meanwhile, said Thursday that if Keystone were to be delayed or lost, the government would continue to focus on exporting crude to Asian markets.

    “Canada will be looking for a buyer,” spokeswoman Sara McIntyre said. “We’re a resource-based, energy-based country and we’ll be looking at all opportunities.”

    The move by the Obama administration will likely cast a chill over U.S. relations with the Harper government.

    Harper has said approval of Keystone XL should be a “complete no brainer.”

    But Obama, in an interview last week with a Nebraska TV station expressed concern about the threat to the environment.

    “We don’t want, for example, aquifers that are adversely affected. Folks in Nebraska obviously would be directly impacted. And so we want to make sure that we are taking the long view on these issues,” Obama said at the time.

    “I think folks in Nebraska, like all (those) across the country, aren’t going to say to themselves, ‘We’ll take a few thousand jobs if it means that our kids are potentially drinking water that would damage their health,’ or if rich land that is so important to agriculture in Nebraska ends up being adversely affected.”

    The tension between Canada and the U.S. over the pipeline comes amid signs in recent months of other problems between the two governments.

    A long-promised announcement on a perimeter security deal for the Canada-U.S. border has been stuck in limbo.

    Harper and Obama announced with great flourish at a White House ceremony in February that the two countries had begun negotiations on a plan to improve security and speed up the flow of cross-border traffic.

    In June, Harper said an action plan for the deal would be released by the end of summer. Instead, negotiations dragged on into the autumn, and the two governments discussed the appropriate venue for an announcement when it is ready. No announcement has been made yet.

    Also this fall, the Obama administration angered Harper’s government by tabling a “Buy American” jobs bill that failed to exempt Canada. Harper and his senior ministers publicly complained that the U.S. was resorting to trade protectionism and that both countries would suffer.

    This weekend, Harper and Obama will attend an APEC summit in Hawaii of Asian-Pacific nations. They will also sit down for a separate “three-amigos” summit, in which the leaders of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico discuss key issues of shared concern.

    Harper has been a strong advocate for the Keystone XL pipeline and has publicly argued in favour of it this autumn.

    - with files from Reuters

    mkennedypostmedia.com

    Twitter.com/Mark_Kennedy_

    salbertspostmedia.com

    Twitter.com/sheldonalberts

    © Copyright (c) Postmedia News


    Read more: http://www.canada.com/business/delay...#ixzz1dLPIOIhI
    Surprisingly... I couldn't find a Keystone XL thread!

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    Default Re: Keystone XL Delayed

    Originally posted by hampstor


    Surprisingly... I couldn't find a Keystone XL thread!
    LOL.... I loved the right wing Rag's (The sun, the paper I wipe my ass with) cover story a couple days ago with the chick form Seinfeld on the cover.

    How do we even let that piece of shit propoganda rag exist in this City?

    I swear they were bought up by Fox "news".

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    US has proven without doubt they do not want Canada's oil.

    Plan B. Sell to China & increase prices by 30% to US as a penalty for screwing us up like that. All settlements to be paid in silver or gold only.

    http://www.northerngateway.ca/project-info/route-map
    Last edited by ZenOps; 11-10-2011 at 06:11 PM.
    Cocoa $12,000 per ton.

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    Default Re: Re: Keystone XL Delayed

    Originally posted by Toma

    LOL.... I loved the right wing Rag's (The sun, the paper I wipe my ass with) cover story a couple days ago with the chick form Seinfeld on the cover.

    How do we even let that piece of shit propoganda rag exist in this City?

    I swear they were bought up by Fox "news".
    I actually agree with you on this one. I do find the sun great for some laughs though, especially when the pages are riddled with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors an elementary student could pick out.

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    The question is, when will Canada build its own refineries? Wouldn't that boost economy, no?
    Does everything matter or does nothing matter?

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    Default

    ...
    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 07-08-2019 at 12:31 AM.

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    Originally posted by Merritt
    The question is, when will Canada build its own refineries? Wouldn't that boost economy, no?
    When you say, "Canada", do you mean the Government should contract someone build a refinery, or a company on their own accord with a profitable plan should build one in Canada?

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    Originally posted by Merritt
    The question is, when will Canada build its own refineries? Wouldn't that boost economy, no?
    It would but in Canada the oil companies want quick and easy profit like you get from production. There are no companies willing to invest the type of capital required to build refineries that would handle the massive volumes the future oil sands will produce.

    I also love how all the hippies are cheering about this even though now they're just gonna go ahead with the pipeline to Kitamat so we can ship it all to China.

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    This will be wildly unpopular, but I think we need a 5 year tax shelter for refinery projects here. Long term it will be better for the economy, and we'd see more tax revenue in the future.

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    Good riddance, I'd rather sell to the Chinese and Indians anyways. The US clearly thinks that Canada will just sit around waiting to sell them cheap oil, time to show them how wrong they are.

    I find it hilarious that people will scream about not having a job, no money and the economy in the dump and in the next sentence they demand that a project worth $7+ BILLION that provides 70,000+ jobs be scrapped..
    See Crank. See Crank Walk. Walk Crank Walk.

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    I'm all for shipping our 'dirty' oil to china. It's too bad we didn't already have a plan in place to dangle over America.

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    Originally posted by dirtsniffer
    I'm all for shipping our 'dirty' oil to china. It's too bad we didn't already have a plan in place to dangle over America.
    Unfortunately, going there means we need a pipeline to the west coast. That ain't happening any faster either.

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    Originally posted by hampstor


    When you say, "Canada", do you mean the Government should contract someone build a refinery, or a company on their own accord with a profitable plan should build one in Canada?
    Whatever works.
    Does everything matter or does nothing matter?

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    Northern Gateway has been Plan A for Enbridge all along.
    Wrangler Pipeline (Enbridge's pipeline to go to the Gulf coast to compete with Keystone XL) has been on the backburner for a while now.

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    Originally posted by buh_buh
    Northern Gateway has been Plan A for Enbridge all along.
    Wrangler Pipeline (Enbridge's pipeline to go to the Gulf coast to compete with Keystone XL) has been on the backburner for a while now.
    "The Wrangler Pipeline, announced in late September, is a proposed joint venture project with Enterprise Products Partners that would transport crude oil from the oversupplied hub at Cushing, Oklahoma to the Texas Gulf Coast refining complex"

    Without Keystone, this is the only viable way to get WTI prices closer to Brent

    http://www.enbridge.com/MediaCentre/...011&id=1527055

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    Slightly OT: China loves oil, but I can see that they are even more interested in nickel in the last few years.

    $400,000+ per cubic meter for nickel. If Canada could somehow manage a direct trade of nickel for neodymium ($300 spot price per kilogram for neodymium or $2.1 million per cubic meter) We might actually be able to startup a decent sized electrical generation manufacturing ability.

    A 6:1 nickel:neodymium trade ratio would mean that we could greatly start reducing our dependance on carbon fuels (and instead sell it to the US at a premium, where the need it for their highway and car infrastructure)

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/zaneselvans/5384143642/

    Because we need it... I'd like to see electricity never breach 8.5 cents per KWH (inflation adjusted) for anyone - it would greatly facilitate economic growth and reduce the end users electrical bill. It is getting out of hand when over 10 cents per kwh to the consumer.

    ADD: I still can't believe that oil is under $100 a barrel (when compared to metals anyhow) Its still amazingly cheap. One silver quarter nowadays buys more gasoline than one silver quarter back in 1964.

    Add add: Just like electricity, I think we should start selling at "peak" rates. If its in high demand, up to 20x the regular price. $2,000 barrel of oil if the US goes over a certain amount. *cough* My name is Rob Anders and $2,000 per barrel sounds fair to me.
    Last edited by ZenOps; 11-11-2011 at 08:30 PM.
    Cocoa $12,000 per ton.

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    Back on topic.

    I get the feeling this will *never* pass.

    The basic US mentality is "whats in it for me?" And any landowner (especially a farmer) who must put their land at some small risk to water quality or incovenience will want a piece of the pie. Just like tolls in California on every highway.

    In Canada, nobody here really owns the land, not even the farmers. So if its decided that a pipeline is the best thing - the farmer is usually compensated with another piece of land somewhere else and or paid off to leave (Or like Ken Masse, simply expropriated)

    The US could never get away with expropriating a few thousand farmers, heavily armed farmers, who do "own" their land.

    So - I'm leaning to a greater than 50% chance that the US itself will not allow the pipeline, which will probably cause gas prices to rise for everyone. But hopefully by then we will be making more than enough in Yuan and buying Chinese goods to not care that the US is blocking progress.

    I mean seriously - why are we sending good oil to the US? What do we get in return? Friendly relations so that they won't invade us for a few years?

    Its at the heart of the US to gain every advantage possible. I'd be willing to bet there are a thousand Wiebo Ludwigs in the US, with a thousand more that would be looking to "tap" into the pipeline illegally to try and steal a few million dollars worth of crude before anyone notices. Its just like an unmetered electrical line for a grow-op to them. Anything to get ahead, sense of entitlement is *extreme* in the US. If you put a pipeline down their farm, they are almost assuredly either do a Wiebo or try to steal as much as they can.



    Billion cubic meters can be stolen fairly quickly.
    Last edited by ZenOps; 11-11-2011 at 05:55 PM.

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    Originally posted by E90_330xi


    "The Wrangler Pipeline, announced in late September, is a proposed joint venture project with Enterprise Products Partners that would transport crude oil from the oversupplied hub at Cushing, Oklahoma to the Texas Gulf Coast refining complex"

    Without Keystone, this is the only viable way to get WTI prices closer to Brent

    http://www.enbridge.com/MediaCentre/...amp;id=1527055
    I realize that, I'm just pointing out Wrangler hasn't exactly been priority #1 for Enbridge for the past while. It used to be called the Monarch South extension, which was perpetually put on hold for months after its planning stages, while all their efforts have been towards Northern Gateway, and rightly so.

    Maybe now with Keystone XL getting delayed, Enbridge will push for Wrangler to go through quicker to take some crude back from Keystone, though its still a more direct route to go from Hardisty down to Cushing using Keystone than Enbridge's system.

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    Good comment....

    As an Albertan and as a person who has worked in the O&G industry for years I am of the opinion that the pipeline to ship unrefined bitumen to American refineries can die a quick death. The oil and the jobs that come from the oil industry are Albertan and Canadian first. It would be better economically and environmentally to have the oild processed here in 'upgraders' before shipping the product to either the United States or Asia.

    The cost of the upgraders is up to the oil companies, who will recupe costs once production starts in a very short time. No upgrader has ever lost money in this province.

    If workers in Texas refineries suffer for lack of work they can emigrate to Canada,... where we will need skilled labour in the new upgraders and additional refineries built here. This way the oil industry jobs created stay in Canada, the spin off jobs stay in Canada, taxes paid stay in Canada. It is Canadian oil -

    If you mine it here, you refine it here.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-flaherty.html
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    This ^^

    What I see is the best sense I've seen for some time. All the yelps about the XL pipeline project seems like a bad idea to me. I can't see WHY Canada government cannot get the point that if we have our own refineries to process the crude oil. We save money from buying the refined oil from USA back (plus the transporting fees!) and we can make money from selling our OWN refined oil to whoever wants to buy.

    Sure, it requires money to build a new refinery plant. But in the end - it provides jobs to Canadians and keep the economics in Canada. As the old saying goes: it takes money to make MORE money.

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