Attawapiskat Crisis

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by Ryan Shawcross


Sounds great. Show me anywhere in any treaty where it says that the white man can extract oil from the Athabasca oil sands without approval from the natives. I'm pretty sure they'd take all that oil revenue over four dollars a year.

Natives are totally unsuitable to live in our BETTER society. It's this, or genocide... you pick!

[Type_S1]

fak the natives....

They need to move and get jobs for real...stop wasting canadian money when you don't want to do anything for canada other then occupy spaces drunk.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Antonito


This is the part that always gets glossed over. The original treaties dealt with land rights. A lot of the current negotiations go above and beyond that to deal with all the shit the government did since those treaties were signed that fucked over the native population.

Until the last generation that was abused under government supervision (mostly under proxies like the church) has passed on, and likely until their children have mostly passed on, the government doesn't have a lot of leverage without opening a can of worms. It's hard to dole out "tough love" to people when the last time the government did that there was a lot of human rights violations, especially with people still alive that serve as examples.

I only heard of residential schools last year when a fellow beyonder told me about them and only in the last day looked into what actually went on.

I'm kind of ashamed as a Canadian to think that we let the shit go on in residential schools for as long as they did.

Successive Gov't have glossed over this and ignored that this happened until recently. We really have made many of them into what they are today. So governments do the only thing they know to do - throwing money at the problem until it hopefully goes away.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by hampstor


I only heard of residential schools last year when a fellow beyonder told me about them and only in the last day looked into what actually went on.

I'm kind of ashamed as a Canadian to think that we let the shit go on in residential schools for as long as they did.

Successive Gov't have glossed over this and ignored that this happened until recently. We really have made many of them into what they are today. So governments do the only thing they know to do - throwing money at the problem until it hopefully goes away.

Yeah, but realistically, what else can gov't do? Go and give every single native a hug? As of April 15, 2010, $1.55 billion had been paid, representing 75,800 cases.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...l-schools.html

[hampstor]

Originally posted by codetrap


Yeah, but realistically, what else can gov't do? Go and give every single native a hug? As of April 15, 2010, $1.55 billion had been paid, representing 75,800 cases.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...l-schools.html

There was a generation that got fucked up by Canada and the church (no surprise that the church was involved). A lot of them never learned how to becoming a part of society (their own culture and within western culture) but had kids. It's like the blind leading the blind.

Giving them a trillion won't fix the root cause is the point i'm getting at. No one knows what to do other than give them money - however that's like giving an addict what he is addicted to. It's a really fucked up situation.

[jutes]

Originally posted by hampstor
No one knows what to do other than give them money -

Simple solution - cut them off from everything. Tell them to blend into Canadian society or STFU. Reserves have transformed into squalors and dumps with the people turning into alcoholics. They have received a free ride from the government for far too long. Why do they get special treatment, because "we were here first"?

[Ryan Shawcross]

Originally posted by jutes


Simple solution - cut them off from everything. Tell them to blend into Canadian society or STFU. Reserves have transformed into squalors and dumps with the people turning into alcoholics. They have received a free ride from the government for far too long. Why do they get special treatment, because "we were here first"?

Basically, yes. When the white man showed up he made a deal with them - we can stay and rape your natural resources and in exchange we'll give you some money for beer. If you want to cut them off from their money, then they have every right to ask us to go back to Europe.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by jutes


Simple solution - cut them off from everything. Tell them to blend into Canadian society or STFU. Reserves have transformed into squalors and dumps with the people turning into alcoholics. They have received a free ride from the government for far too long. Why do they get special treatment, because "we were here first"?

I am sure a majority of Canadians, if they had the chance to vote, would vote to cut off the natives completely.

Do you know how much it would save the Canadian economy per year without these natives leaching off of us? Do you know how much it would save companies per year operating in Canada if they didn't have to deal with their complete and utter bullshit which would result in higher revenues and more taxes paid to the Canadian government?

I honestly believe it should be put to a vote in Canada whether we should have to keep supporting this useless sloths or if we should cut funding and make them get jobs and figure life out. Why not let Canadians decide on Canada's future like it should be?

[Ryan Shawcross]

Originally posted by Type_S1





I am sure a majority of Canadians, if they had the chance to vote, would vote to cut off the natives completely.

Do you know how much it would save the Canadian economy per year without these natives leaching off of us? Do you know how much it would save companies per year operating in Canada if they didn't have to deal with their complete and utter bullshit which would result in higher revenues and more taxes paid to the Canadian government?

I honestly believe it should be put to a vote in Canada whether we should have to keep supporting this useless sloths or if we should cut funding and make them get jobs and figure life out. Why not let Canadians decide on Canada's future like it should be?

We have treaty obligations that we can't simply back out of. I'm sure if you were to put NAFTA to another vote the majority of Canadians would want to get rid of the agreement too. That doesn't mean you can just go ahead and do it.

The vast majority of Americans fifty years ago would have voted to not allow African-American men to marry white chicks. Does that make it right? The vast majority of people in redneck provinces like Alberta are against gay marriage. Does that mean that it should be okay to just vote it out? No, of course not.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by jutes


Simple solution - cut them off from everything. Tell them to blend into Canadian society or STFU. Reserves have transformed into squalors and dumps with the people turning into alcoholics. They have received a free ride from the government for far too long. Why do they get special treatment, because "we were here first"?

It's not just the 'we were here first'. It's also the fact that:

1) We abused the shit out of a bunch of them to the point they can't integrate into society (both ours and theirs)
2) They had kids who are fucked up because you have someone abused raising kids. Said kids also have problems integrating into society and have become the 'leaches' we are talking about.
3) We made this mess.

Yes, they're now a leach on society. I hate having to pay for it too and like Quebec, they make me feel like a second class citizen.

I believe that cutting them off will eventually work - but it will likely result in things getting really really bad first. We may have to write off the previous generation and the current generation before things get better.

If we go down that road, we can't take the high and mighty road when it comes to policing the world from oppression anymore. It will turn into a human rights fiasco for Canada.

[Merritt]

Perhaps firms should put up signs saying "we're hiring natives" signs?

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by Ryan Shawcross


We have treaty obligations that we can't simply back out of. I'm sure if you were to put NAFTA to another vote the majority of Canadians would want to get rid of the agreement too. That doesn't mean you can just go ahead and do it.

The vast majority of Americans fifty years ago would have voted to not allow African-American men to marry white chicks. Does that make it right? The vast majority of people in redneck provinces like Alberta are against gay marriage. Does that mean that it should be okay to just vote it out? No, of course not.

OOOHHH right...the genius 180 LSAT electrician.

Actually the government can really do whatever the hell it wants to. There are outs to recognizing natives as a separate person under the law as well...we just need parliament to vote on it...which if most Canadians supported it could be done. Nobody has the balls to do anything about it yet but assisting natives will be one of the downfalls of Canada as a whole when we end up with debt like America.

Your using completing irrelevant topics to support your ideas as well...great lawyer you will be

Also when you end up going to Harvard you should realize that a government is run for the people of Canada...if the majority of Canada wants something done...it is the governments job to get it done.

[Ryan Shawcross]

Originally posted by Type_S1



OOOHHH right...the genius 180 LSAT electrician.

Actually the government can really do whatever the hell it wants to. There are outs to recognizing natives as a separate person under the law as well...we just need parliament to vote on it...which if most Canadians supported it could be done. Nobody has the balls to do anything about it yet but assisting natives will be one of the downfalls of Canada as a whole when we end up with debt like America.

Your using completing irrelevant topics to support your ideas as well...great lawyer you will be

Also when you end up going to Harvard you should realize that a government is run for the people of Canada...if the majority of Canada wants something done...it is the governments job to get it done.

Actually the government can really do whatever the hell it wants to

Laughable at best bud. Two words: treaty obligations.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Ryan Shawcross


Actually the government can really do whatever the hell it wants to

Laughable at best bud. Two words: treaty obligations.

No you're wrong. They can actually do it. Obligations are only as good as the ability to enforce if those obligations are not met.

You're making it sound like the first nations can write an eviction notice that the rest of Canada must abide by.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Ryan Shawcross]

Originally posted by hampstor


No you're wrong. They can actually do it. Obligations are only as good as the ability to enforce if those obligations are not met.

You're making it sound like the first nations can write an eviction notice that the rest of Canada must abide by.

No, but they can take the government to court and they'll win for sure. The government is not above the law.

[Merritt]

Originally posted by Ryan Shawcross


No, but they can take the government to court and they'll win for sure. The government is not above the law.

The government isn't above the law?

That's news to me.

[Ryan Shawcross]

Originally posted by Merritt


The government isn't above the law?

That's news to me.

I would suggest you do a bit of reading. What would happen if the government passed a law that made moving from one province to another for work illegal? The law would be struck down by a court as unconstitutional. Hence, the government is not above the law.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Ryan Shawcross


No, but they can take the government to court and they'll win for sure. The government is not above the law.

Good point - I probably should've thought through what I said first.

That still doesn't change the fact that they can't write us an eviction letter to GTFO of Canada.

Now time to get back on topic: what to do about Attawapiskat

[Ryan Shawcross]

Originally posted by hampstor


Good point - I probably should've thought through what I said first.

That still doesn't change the fact that they can't write us an eviction letter to GTFO of Canada.

No, but they can get millions in damages from the government for cutting them off financially and violating the terms of the treaties. This is why the government wouldn't back out of any said treaties.