Attawapiskat Crisis

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
My education is all from internet videos so Im no expert, but from my understanding its unlawful, an international human rights law, for the Canadian government to infringe on the natural rights of the natives in this land. Like polluting their environment, stealing land that their ancestors have occupied for thousands of years which was a food source for them, and restricting their movement because they are not Canadian.
Of course the U.N. or any country isnt going to militarily standup for the natives but in the international courts, the Canadian corporation will be in the wrong.

I formally petition the mods of Beyond for a larger "facepalm" icon, the present one is nowhere near big enough for this.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
My education is all from internet videos

this guy must be a climate change skeptic as well.

[ercchry]

the fact he keeps referring to the government as a corporation makes me think he stumbled upon a few free man of the land videos in his internet journey

[hampstor]

Originally posted by ercchry
the fact he keeps referring to the government as a corporation makes me think he stumbled upon a few free man of the land videos in his internet journey

I just spit my water all over my shirt you bastard. That thread was epic.

[clem24]

Sweet!!! Who needs post secondary when The Internet = newest form of higher education and it's (practically) free!!! I wonder if there's a website where you can earn your internet degree...

[Sugarphreak]

...

[r3ccOs]

pull the support, and let them live off the land, like they said they did in the "good ole" days

[Ergo-Sun-Tzu]

Based on some research I did on this crisis, the cost of living is very high in Attawapiskat. Also the shipping cost going into this isolated place is very high. Now in terms of economics, I don't know how the local economy is run. I am guessing its non-existent.

I think they should disband these communitys, due to the fact that their self-reliant too much on tax payers money. If Canada was hit with a an economic-turmoil all these people would be in shambles.

If this math is a proper source

The federal government said they have given $90,000,000 through the span of 5 years. 2006-2011

$90,000,000 / 5(years) =$ 15,000,000 / 1800 (people) = $8,333.33 per person each years or $8333.33/12 = $694.44 a month.


Apparently, to build a house in this community cost about $250,000.
Since shipping cost is high to this place.

I don't know, I could be wrong, I am just giving a different perspective on this situation. If you want my sources I think it would be proper to research this better than I could.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Ergo-Sun-Tzu


$90,000,000 / 5(yaars) =$ 15,000,000 / 1800 (people) = $8,333.33 per person each years or $8333.33/12 = $694.44 a month.

poor marth...

[Ergo-Sun-Tzu]

Ya I just got that from another source.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
They are social problems at the core, and they stem from being placed in a completely socialist environment.

Do you honestly think the problems originated from having a socialist environment? Serious question.

In your mind do you actually see the substance abuse and mental issues stemming from boredom due to free money?

[SKR]

Originally posted by Ergo-Sun-Tzu
Based on some research I did on this crisis, the cost of living is very high in Attawapiskat. Also the shipping cost going into this isolated place is very high. Now in terms of economics, I don't know how the local economy is run. I am guessing its non-existent.

I think they should disband these communitys, due to the fact that their self-reliant too much on tax payers money. If Canada was hit with a an economic-turmoil all these people would be in shambles.

If this math is a proper source

The federal government said they have given $90,000,000 through the span of 5 years. 2006-2011

$90,000,000 / 5(years) =$ 15,000,000 / 1800 (people) = $8,333.33 per person each years or $8333.33/12 = $694.44 a month.


Apparently, to build a house in this community cost about $250,000.
Since shipping cost is high to this place.

I don't know, I could be wrong, I am just giving a different perspective on this situation. If you want my sources I think it would be proper to research this better than I could.

Then don't live there. It's such an easy fucking cure. When the supply plane comes in, get the fuck on it and get out.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Ergo-Sun-Tzu
Based on some research I did on this crisis, the cost of living is very high in Attawapiskat. Also the shipping cost going into this isolated place is very high. Now in terms of economics, I don't know how the local economy is run. I am guessing its non-existent.

I think they should disband these communitys, due to the fact that their self-reliant too much on tax payers money. If Canada was hit with a an economic-turmoil all these people would be in shambles.

If this math is a proper source

The federal government said they have given $90,000,000 through the span of 5 years. 2006-2011

$90,000,000 / 5(years) =$ 15,000,000 / 1800 (people) = $8,333.33 per person each years or $8333.33/12 = $694.44 a month.


Apparently, to build a house in this community cost about $250,000.
Since shipping cost is high to this place.

I don't know, I could be wrong, I am just giving a different perspective on this situation. If you want my sources I think it would be proper to research this better than I could.

WTF, are you retarded? 90,000,000/5 = 18,000,000/1929 (people living "on-reserve" in 2010) = $9331/person/year = $777/month

[5.0]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


WTF, are you retarded? 90,000,000/5 = 18,000,000/1929 (people living "on-reserve" in 2010) = $9331/person/year = $777/month

Now add that to what your average household income in Canada... $74,700(2009) combined income, equals $84,031, that is after tax as well.

Now I know the opportunities out there are not as great, but it's time these people start contributing to our country...

That land is yours, great. Make something out of it instead of squatting on your own property taking handouts from the tax payers of this country.

[Cos]

$777 more than I get for free. I work for every god damned penny of mine.

[SKR]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Yep, you give a group of people everything they ever need with no work involved in actually earning it and it leads to all kind of social problems. This isn't targeting any specific group, it is just human nature.

Depression is a major problem when people get everything they ever need, you see it among kids who grow up with the silver spoon in the mouth; but look at the bigger picture, why do you think suicide rates are so high in highly socialist countries?
http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/2...suicide-rates/

The people who don't fall victim to it are the ones who find themselves a calling in life. Those people tend to withdraw themselves from such systems.


What is the deal here anyway, with all the new posts I'd say you are back on your Beyond addiction? Thanks to you I am horribly addicted to this site btw!

How do Hutterite colonies work then, if it's human nature to reject a socialist system?

I understand your point that giving away free money and expecting the recipient to do something productive with it isn't working in this specific situation. But to say that such a system is doomed to failure isn't correct. In a lot of cases, maybe most cases. Not all.

[Cos]

Originally posted by SKR


How do Hutterite colonies work then, if it's human nature to reject a socialist system?

Hutt colonies are far from classless. There is lots of politics and power within the colonies. You just dont see it on the outside a lot.

I used to a lot of work for colonies and there is definitely a pecking order.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Yep, you give a group of people everything they ever need with no work involved in actually earning it and it leads to all kind of social problems. This isn't targeting any specific group, it is just human nature.

Depression is a major problem when people get everything they ever need, you see it among kids who grow up with the silver spoon in the mouth; but look at the bigger picture, why do you think suicide rates are so high in highly socialist countries?
http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/2...suicide-rates/

The people who don't fall victim to it are the ones who find themselves a calling in life. Those people tend to withdraw themselves from such systems.


What is the deal here anyway, with all the new posts I'd say you are back on your Beyond addiction? Thanks to you I am horribly addicted to this site btw!

Ok I just wanted to make sure I understood your position before I responded.

Lets start with some reading. If you're feeling particularly ambitious, try this one. It's 300+ pages but it's pretty comprehensive. For the sake of this conversation if you want to skim try chapters 4 and 5, but quite a lot of it is relevant.

If you want really simple reading, there's always wikipedia

The societal problems of natives is well documented and established as stemming in large part from horrific abuse that lasted into the mid 1900s at places like residential schools. There are still people alive today who were ripped from their families and sent to these places where at best they were taught to disregard everything they know about themselves, and at worst were beaten and raped. For fucks sakes, it took till the 60s before natives were allowed to even vote like real people.

Now, when you have generations of people dealing with things like PTSD, and having to self medicate with alcohol and drugs because the official channels can't be trusted to treat them properly, subsequent generations are being fucked up with high rates of abuse and neglect.

"So what, lots of people come from shitty backgrounds, why are these people special?"

Good question. The answer lies in who caused these shitty conditions. Seeing as how the government was a direct cause for these problems, the onus falls on the government to try to provide a solution.

So far the solution has been to give them money and set up economic/social programs to encourage self reliance (free schooling, job programs, etc). Neither is a magic pill that is imediately fixing the problem, but simply saying "ok guys, sorry we ruined your society and shattered your lives, but fuck you fix yourselves, the rest of Canada is butthurt" just isn't going to cut it.

You do have a point that providing a meager (lol at "all their needs met", the conditions are often complete and utter shit and you wouldn't want to live on government assistance if given the choice) existence is a crutch that is being used, but there are so many existing problems that no one is really sure what to do. There is way too much history to try to force a solution, simply cutting off support is a final death sentence to many, and the status quo is a long painful process.

Yes, there are many examples of natives leaving the reserve and being productive members of society. I'm not saying it's impossible. I am however pointing out that it's significantly harder for reasons that go far past "they're lazy alcoholics" and have direct ties to the governments recent transgressions. So whenever someone on Beyond (or anywhere really) writes things like "why don't they just get jobs", "why is this my problem" or "why are they bitching about something that happened 300 years ago", I try to point out that they seem to lack a lot of knowledge on the subject.


And the deal is that I have not much to do at work and it gets dark and cold by 4pm. Once spring comes I'm probably a ghost again