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Originally posted by 01RedDX
Well, the Greeks are a hard working people who just want to work an honest two hours a day, three days a week, not pay any taxes and retire at 45 with 90% of their salary for the rest of their lives.
What's wrong with that?
The only people who deny this fact and try and blame other factors are those that still believe in the socialist utopia.
Full doc available here.
Last edited by sputnik; 02-28-2012 at 09:25 AM.
Banned
Bullshit.Originally posted by sputnik
The only people who deny this fact and try and blame other factors are those that still believe in the socialist utopia.
If it was JUST Greece, then why the entire Union in trouble? France, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Germany etc.
It's like looking at the US crisis and refusing to take into account the Federal Reserve and the roles of central banking, and lending "air" money out at interest.
The entire system is made out so that GROWTH is the only thing that can SUSTAIN the economy. What sense does that make? The world is not infinite, so how can we expect infinite growth?
It is also based on having a balanced or positive trade deficit. Well how in the fuck is that gonna happen in a modern world?
Duh.
Can't blame ordinary people for a faulty system.
Last edited by Toma; 02-28-2012 at 11:07 AM.
Registered User
I tells you what the problem is... Free money. Thats right, free money. That and the bankers actually thought that people would ever feel obligated to pay it back with or without interest.
I have no illusions that the $1 Trillion US student loan bubble will never be paid back. Do I really think that a student will actually be able to in reality pay every $100 accrued debt with 68 pounds of copper pennies - with four pounds of copper interest every year?
Hell no, that would be "reality" like actually producing wheat and bread - who wants that, lol.
You would be lucky to get a person who shuffles paper for six digits salaries on 35 years - Like Rob Anders. Get that whip out Rob! Make them students pay 68 pounds of copper for every $100 they owe. Zenops needs a monster box of nickels and silver.
Last edited by ZenOps; 02-28-2012 at 11:21 AM.
Cocoa $11,000 per tonne.
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Spain, France, Portugal and Italy are in the same boat for the same reasons. Just to a lesser extent. Italy has already had massive government cuts to ease the risk of default.Originally posted by Toma
Bullshit.
If it was JUST Greece, then why the entire Union in trouble? France, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Germany etc.
It's like looking at the US crisis and refusing to take into account the Federal Reserve and the roles of central banking, and lending "air" money out at interest.
The entire system is made out so that GROWTH is the only thing that can SUSTAIN the economy. What sense does that make? The world is not infinite, so how can we expect infinite growth?
It is also based on having a balanced or positive trade deficit. Well how in the fuck is that gonna happen in a modern world?
Duh.
Can't blame ordinary people for a faulty system.
Why can't you blame ordinary people?
Greece (among other countries) have HUGE public sector payrolls with salaries far and above that of other EU countries. Not to mention the gratuitous perks, bonuses and retirement benefits.
People there have been living high off the hog with the government ignoring the balance sheet for decades. Now it is coming to bite them in the ass and it is time to take their medicine.
However, given your socialist bent I am not surprised where you lay the blame.
At the end of the day if you can't pay your bills you need to cut back. Blaming the FIAT money system or the central bank just makes you look ignorant to your own issues.
Banned
Ok. So if it's not the system.....Originally posted by sputnik
Spain, France, Portugal and Italy are in the same boat for the same reasons. Just to a lesser extent. Italy has already had massive government cuts to ease the risk of default.
Why can't you blame ordinary people?
Greece (among other countries) have HUGE public sector payrolls with salaries far and above that of other EU countries. Not to mention the gratuitous perks, bonuses and retirement benefits.
People there have been living high off the hog with the government ignoring the balance sheet for decades. Now it is coming to bite them in the ass and it is time to take their medicine.
However, given your socialist bent I am not surprised where you lay the blame.
At the end of the day if you can't pay your bills you need to cut back. Blaming the FIAT money system or the central bank just makes you look ignorant to your own issues.
Can you explain how every country can have a positive trade deficit?
Banned
Let me simplify it for you. The system only works long term if every country in it exports more than they import.
Say you have a sport league with 10 teams. They all play each other. How can they ALL have more wins than losses?
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Maybe if one of the teams (Greece) that lost to every other team gets kicked out of the league (EU)?Originally posted by Toma
Say you have a sport league with 10 teams. They all play each other. How can they ALL have more wins than losses?lol
Banned
That's not as silly as it sounds. Bleed every country dry, then kick em out. The one standing in the end is the winner.Originally posted by dimi
Maybe if one of the teams (Greece) that lost to every other team gets kicked out of the league (EU)?
Not much of a "league" in the end though
It is plain and simple built on a lie, and is unsustainable.
Ask yourselves these questions. Who hands out the "Euro" itself, how much do they hand out, to which country, how is the amount decided, at what interest rate, and then think about trade balances and repayment.
Last edited by Toma; 02-28-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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Greece is in trouble because they lied and manipulated their financial statistics in order to gain entry into the eurozone, then, the combination of the good-will awarded as being a eurozone member, as well as the apparently miraculous (and completely fictional, as it turns out) turn around of their economy, they were able to borrow huge sums of money that they couldn't possibly pay off.
Greece borrowed money off a lie. Now they expect the ECB to go against it's policies of mitigating inflation to bail them out, otherwise they'll take the whole system down with them.
The problem with the ECB/eurozone/euro idea is that, by clumping everyone together, it allowed a tiny, otherwise financially insignificant country like Greece to go WAY further into the hole than they ever could have gone on their own. If Greece hadn't been skewing their numbers, there's no way they'd have been let into the union, and there's no way they would have been able to borrow the amount of money they borrowed.
Greece is like a guy who works at 7-11, but figured out a way to make it look like he's the CEO of 7-11 when you check his credit score. He then went out and spent like he was the CEO, and consequently finds himself in a bit of a pickle. Now someone has to cover all the money he spent, and the only real option the ECB has is to make more money to cover his debt, devalueing their own money in the process.
Last edited by TKRIS; 02-28-2012 at 12:38 PM.
Founding member of the Leave-Me-Alone-atarian party of Canada.
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Very succinct summary of what actually happened.Originally posted by TKRIS
Greece is in trouble because they lied and manipulated their financial statistics in order to gain entry into the eurozone, then, the combination of the good-will awarded as being a eurozone member, as well as the apparently miraculous (and completely fictional, as it turns out) turn around of their economy, they were able to borrow huge sums of money that they couldn't possibly pay off.
Greece borrowed money off a lie. Now they expect the ECB to go against it's policies of mitigating inflation to bail them out, otherwise they'll take the whole system down with them.
The problem with the ECB/eurozone/euro idea is that, by clumping everyone together, it allowed a tiny, otherwise financially insignificant country like Greece to go WAY further into the hole than they ever could have gone on their own. If Greece hadn't been skewing their numbers, there's no way they'd have been let into the union, and there's no way they would have been able to borrow the amount of money they borrowed.
Greece is like a guy who works at 7-11, but figured out a way to make it look like he's the CEO of 7-11 when you check his credit score. He then went out and spent like he was the CEO, and consequently finds himself in a bit of a pickle. Now someone has to cover all the money he spent, and the only real option the ECB has is to make more money to cover his debt, devalueing their own money in the process.
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Interleague play.Originally posted by Toma
Say you have a sport league with 10 teams. They all play each other. How can they ALL have more wins than losses?
Banned
Yes, because 95% of Greeks avoiding/not paying their taxes is totally the fault of capitalism
Registered User
Very interesting. This thread has been quite an eye opener. I never took too much interest in exactly whats happening with Greece, but wow.... Im flat out amazed this went on as long as it did.Originally posted by TKRIS
Greece is in trouble because they lied and manipulated their financial statistics in order to gain entry into the eurozone, then, the combination of the good-will awarded as being a eurozone member, as well as the apparently miraculous (and completely fictional, as it turns out) turn around of their economy, they were able to borrow huge sums of money that they couldn't possibly pay off.
Greece borrowed money off a lie. Now they expect the ECB to go against it's policies of mitigating inflation to bail them out, otherwise they'll take the whole system down with them.
The problem with the ECB/eurozone/euro idea is that, by clumping everyone together, it allowed a tiny, otherwise financially insignificant country like Greece to go WAY further into the hole than they ever could have gone on their own. If Greece hadn't been skewing their numbers, there's no way they'd have been let into the union, and there's no way they would have been able to borrow the amount of money they borrowed.
Greece is like a guy who works at 7-11, but figured out a way to make it look like he's the CEO of 7-11 when you check his credit score. He then went out and spent like he was the CEO, and consequently finds himself in a bit of a pickle. Now someone has to cover all the money he spent, and the only real option the ECB has is to make more money to cover his debt, devalueing their own money in the process.
WTF were they thinking that would eventually happen?
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side"
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Look into what's happening to the guy the ECB sent in to sort their books out, because it gets better.Originally posted by Graham_A_M
Very interesting. This thread has been quite an eye opener. I never took too much interest in exactly whats happening with Greece, but wow.... Im flat out amazed this went on as long as it did.
WTF were they thinking that would eventually happen?
He's facing life in prison.
Founding member of the Leave-Me-Alone-atarian party of Canada.
Beyond Bully
Oh the drama bra
I'm scared.
I am user #49Originally posted by rage2
Shit, there's only 49 users here, I doubt we'll even break 100
Banned
Greeks owe 37 billion ($50 billion) in back taxes. Of that amount, 32 billion, is owed by corporations.....
Greece is in Debt by 600 billion.
So, I am confused again by the "blame the people" rhetoric.
Banned
Originally posted by max_boost
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I know, I hope that this won't be the case but it wouldnt surprise me the least if it happens.Originally posted by max_boost
Oh the drama bra
I'm scared.
Beyond Bully
I got it off your feed and after watching it I was likeOriginally posted by jdmXSI
I know, I hope that this won't be the case but it wouldnt surprise me the least if it happens.
I think it's about time I get off my ass and learn how to hunt and gather.
Registered User
Holy Shit man!
If you need clarification on why Greece is where they are, than the world IS truly fucked.
Greece is the tip of the iceberg my friend. Study up because we are in time that will differ from any other economical standpoint in history. Things are about to get really chaotic.
Europe is in big trouble (Ireland is next, then spain, italy, france etc). China is taking a dump and the USA/Israel want to bomb the shit out of Iran because.....(well because they have nuke capability /sarc.)
Even my wife knows whats going on.
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