Which bad business practice is worse?

[heavyfuel]

This is a dumb question, I'm not gonna go into detail but I need to know, which is more likely to lead a business to it's
demise faster? Arbitrary and questionable billing practices or being unhelpful to callers who are deemed a waste of time?

The latter is myself at times I must admit, I have a competitor with bad reviews nationwide all related to ripping people off. Yet they're busier than I am. I don't get it.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
... I have a competitor with bad reviews nationwide all related to ripping people off. Yet they're busier than I am. I don't get it.

problem solved

Originally posted by heavyfuel


As for competition... yeah. There's ways to deal with that. Odd as it may seem, when customers call me and they're completely unreasonable, aka on the GRIND I make an effort to be excessively rude, since bad news travels faster than good, and you are the company you keep, if Joe Fuckwad doesn't understand that I'm a for-profit organization, then I sure as shit don't wanna hear from his/her friends or family either and not only will said behavior guarantee that, but they will now move on and proceed to call the competition, and they can run themselves into the ground dealing with cheap morons.

[heavyfuel]

Well nothing works 100% of the time no matter what you're doing lol

[CUG]

If you don't have the resources to market to and provide service to his customers, get the resources, and take advantage.

[sexualbanana]

They're both practices that are heavily focused on short-term gain. I've met plenty of salespeople in the past who's prime objective is to make the sale regardless of how they do it (it can be through questionable billing or just bad customer service once the sale is made).

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by CUG
If you don't have the resources to market to and provide service to his customers, get the resources, and take advantage.

Definitely see an angle there actually, sent out a few e-mails just waiting to hear back.

Originally posted by sexualbanana
They're both practices that are heavily focused on short-term gain. I've met plenty of salespeople in the past who's prime objective is to make the sale regardless of how they do it (it can be through questionable billing or just bad customer service once the sale is made).

They do both, I do neither, although I can certainly see how screening out nickel and dimers has no long term benefit whatsoever. Then again most nickel and dimers are never happy anyways hence no potential for much future business either way.

[blitz]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
As for competition... yeah. There's ways to deal with that. Odd as it may seem, when customers call me and they're completely unreasonable, aka on the GRIND I make an effort to be excessively rude, since bad news travels faster than good, and you are the company you keep, if Joe Fuckwad doesn't understand that I'm a for-profit organization, then I sure as shit don't wanna hear from his/her friends or family either and not only will said behavior guarantee that, but they will now move on and proceed to call the competition, and they can run themselves into the ground dealing with cheap morons.

Sounds like your doomed to fail.

[CMW403]

Originally posted by blitz


Sounds like your doomed to fail.

No kidding

With an attitude like that I'm surprised you ever expected to succeed.

[Mibz]

Yeah, it's not like any tuner shop in Calgary has stayed in business by treating teenagers like crap.

*cough*

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by blitz


Sounds like your doomed to fail.

By traditional standards, yes. As a "business", complete failure. As a "self employed individual" I'd say I'm doing very well at the moment.

Originally posted by CMW403


No kidding

With an attitude like that I'm surprised you ever expected to succeed.

So when people expect me to drop everything and race over there often for 1/3 what my minimum charge is, how is there any benefit in being accommodating to those types??? Sorry dude I agree big time my attitude is fucked, serious about that, but some people just can't be pleased, so better to weed 'em out and let it go, no? I'm at the point where I can tell in less than 5 seconds by the tone of voice if it's gonna be a go or not... And I'm pretty accurate.... That scares the shit outta me.

[dannie]

It seems to me that you are asking which is the lesser of the two evils and I guess it comes down to which one is morally more repulsive than the other.

For me, I would rather someone shut me down and say they can't do the job, than waste my time and overbill me. That being said, I do find that there are politically correct ways to do this.

For example: I had a client yesterday that thought it was my fault that he bounced a cheque. He couldnt comprehend that his money is his responsibility. I gave him a solid 10 minutes of my time and tried to explain why his non-payment was his to deal with before I shut him down and got a little more aggressive. I could have simply told him to pay up and shut up, but I don't think that would have gotten me very far. Plus it would have made me look like a cunt to all 40 people standing within hearing distance.

Instead, by giving him the 10 minutes of time.... I look like a fucking rockstar to the people in line because I tried to explain it instead of pushing him off immediately. The very next client said "Good on you. I don't have the patience for people like that."

I guess what I'm saying is... You have to take the good, with the bad when you are in business. And if that means you have to spend 5 minutes with a time waster... then so be it.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by dannie
It seems to me that you are asking which is the lesser of the two evils and I guess it comes down to which one is morally more repulsive than the other.

For me, I would rather someone shut me down and say they can't do the job, than waste my time and overbill me. That being said, I do find that there are politically correct ways to do this.

For example: I had a client yesterday that thought it was my fault that he bounced a cheque. He couldnt comprehend that his money is his responsibility. I gave him a solid 10 minutes of my time and tried to explain why his non-payment was his to deal with before I shut him down and got a little more aggressive. I could have simply told him to pay up and shut up, but I don't think that would have gotten me very far. Plus it would have made me look like a cunt to all 40 people standing within hearing distance.

Instead, by giving him the 10 minutes of time.... I look like a fucking rockstar to the people in line because I tried to explain it instead of pushing him off immediately. The very next client said "Good on you. I don't have the patience for people like that."

I guess what I'm saying is... You have to take the good, with the bad when you are in business. And if that means you have to spend 5 minutes with a time waster... then so be it.

Well done, and agreed!

Every business has it. I have cancelled some accounts, or will not sign on certain accounts that will give me more trouble than profit. Sometimes, you just need to politely take a stand.

Just this past year, I have lost only 2 accounts myself. That was about a $300k/year loss for my company. However, now I can spend more time encouraging and promoting my other clients which has turned a higher profit than I have lost.

Picking your battles is one thing. Tactfully dealing with issues is another. I have never been an ass to a customer, but I have told a customer what my limits are. I always bring solutions to the table when being put against the wall. 9/10 times, they take it. I always provide the best I can without compromising myself or the company image.

[e31]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
Arbitrary and questionable billing practices or being unhelpful to callers

Telus and Shaw both seem to be making money hand over fist using this business model. A possible tweak may be to be both unhelpful and rude to callers?

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Tomaz


Well done, and agreed!

Every business has it. I have cancelled some accounts, or will not sign on certain accounts that will give me more trouble than profit. Sometimes, you just need to politely take a stand.

Just this past year, I have lost only 2 accounts myself. That was about a $300k/year loss for my company. However, now I can spend more time encouraging and promoting my other clients which has turned a higher profit than I have lost.

Picking your battles is one thing. Tactfully dealing with issues is another. I have never been an ass to a customer, but I have told a customer what my limits are. I always bring solutions to the table when being put against the wall. 9/10 times, they take it. I always provide the best I can without compromising myself or the company image.

Yeah I agree. There are definitely cases where firing a customer is the right course of action

[kvg]

If you want to grow your business don't spend your time hating on the competition, they will dig their own grave if there is solid competition and your time is better spent focusing on your customers. I will agree some people aren't worth dealing with, but you better get good at recognizing that before they are your clients. The bad news travels faster than good is true for the most part, but I can tell you some months repeat and referral customers will put thousands extra in my pockets, because I treated them right and they know I genuinely appreciate their business. If you put a solid effort in to understanding your clients you can bet you'll stand a better chance of them doing the same.

[msommers]

The way that I look at this is pretty straight-forward but I don't have a lot of background information so take it with a grain of salt. You're complaining that you're not as busy as your competition is (with immoral billing practises). To be honest, it sounds like you don't want to waste your time with people who seem like time-wasters. That would be fine if you were as busy as your competition but you aren't. And so, you actually do have time to spend with "time-wasters" who may actually become future clients.

Then again if you are busy enough, I don't know what you're complaining about.

[Rat Fink]

.

[heavyfuel]

I never held a job for more than 6 months my whole life. I remember somebody who suggested that I go into business for myself. My reply? "If I can't hold a job, who's gonna wanna work for me?" Eh? Here I am. It's not a business. I'm self employed and surviving. For how much longer is anyone's guess. Sorry guys I'm a fuckin mess. Mentally beat the fuck up.

[garnet]

the most successful individuals that i've known, have all had a few things in common (even though i have failed to do the same )
they charge the max $ they can
they don't care what others think or say
they get in fast, finish the work and get out fast

[kvg]

What you are doing now is looking for a reason failing won't be you fault it will be things beyond your control. What you should be doing is look at what you can improve on to build your business and succeed. Things can only bother you if you choose to let them and what your doing now is letting the competition win because you so worried about what their doing that your not thinking straight.