Good idea overall as a bridge solution while we figure out the next best idea. He makes an interesting case for natural gas.
Good idea overall as a bridge solution while we figure out the next best idea. He makes an interesting case for natural gas.
He had a really good interview on The Daily Show and he's gotten me interested since. He also used to live in Calgary for awhile, but that was a long time ago and completely irrelevant.
sig deleted by moderator, click here for info
He has been pushing for quite awhile. Didn't watch the video but I think getting the trucks converted is a great idea. But key is that we need stable prices. Price is low right now but it may screw with business if it doubles tomorrow.
Last edited by Xtrema; 03-19-2012 at 10:00 PM.
Love that talk.
Current Cars:
2019 BMW X3 M40i Stage 2, 12.44 at 110mph
1972 Chevy Super Cheyenne C10 Pickup 402 big block, 700R4
2004 GMC 2500HD 8.1L
Past Cars:
1970 Chevy Blazer, 2wd
2003 BMW X5 4.6IS Doushmobile, moneypit
2015 Ford Fiesta ST | Cobb Stage 1, catless downpipe
2008 Corvette Z06 - 11.39 at 123.8mph
2002 Corvette Z06 - 12.10 at 116.5mph
2005 Jeep Wrangler LJ
1993 5L Mustang - 12.59 at 108mph
1989 5L Mustang
1990 Jeep Cherokee
1991 Acura Integra RS 403Honda
He tried the same talk with wind until it wasn't financially viable for big returns. I remember he was on the daily show a few years ago saying wind would save us all. If natural gas prices go up, how long until he is back to saying "crude is our savior"
sig deleted by moderator, because they are useless
He addresses this in the talk, in the Q/A section. And no I am not giving you the answer.Originally posted by finboy
He tried the same talk with wind until it wasn't financially viable for big returns. I remember he was on the daily show a few years ago saying wind would save us all. If natural gas prices go up, how long until he is back to saying "crude is our savior"
I watched it, his q&a session was mOre unconvincing than his talk, probably Part of why it is getting rated so poorly on Ted.com
sig deleted by moderator, because they are useless
I will watch this tonight, but just in case he never mentioned it in the video, he is the owner of Clean Energy Fuels which builds natural gas fueling stations. ie. might be biased towards the use of NG
This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It is being rated poorly because TED watchers don't like two things.Originally posted by finboy
I watched it, his q&a session was mOre unconvincing than his talk, probably Part of why it is getting rated so poorly on Ted.com
- FRACing
- Making money
Something that T. Boone Pickens does both of.
He does mention he owns a lot of stock in NG, and he lost a lot of money in wind power. Sputnik called it right.Originally posted by Euro_Trash
I will watch this tonight, but just in case he never mentioned it in the video, he is the owner of Clean Energy Fuels which builds natural gas fueling stations. ie. might be biased towards the use of NG
I am curious though, how he got his numbers from converting Heavy Duty vehicles. Did it include everything, such as the power loss, and therefore smaller loads/more heavy vehicles required, etc.
I think that's just a high level selling point. If you read most studies by transit authorities, switching to natural gas never made sense unless carbon credit is in play. NG cost way more than diesel fleets.Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I am curious though, how he got his numbers from converting Heavy Duty vehicles. Did it include everything, such as the power loss, and therefore smaller loads/more heavy vehicles required, etc.
Links to studies?Originally posted by Xtrema
I think that's just a high level selling point. If you read most studies by transit authorities, switching to natural gas never made sense unless carbon credit is in play. NG cost way more than diesel fleets.
Tough to believe that when AECO / Henry Hub is trading at $2, and WTI is $106, that NG won't be cheaper for a long time. Factoring in a 6:1 energy differential, we're then looking at $12 to $106. Gas prices would need to increase nearly 900% to catch up to oil right now.
I understand there are additional costs / energy inefficiencies associated with gas, but 10x? Doubtful.
I think Pickens has some really smart ideas, but he comes off a bit arrogant and condenscending in this presentation.
.
Last edited by Cos; 01-01-2017 at 07:55 PM.
Originally posted by adam c
Line goes up, line goes down, line does squiggly things and fucks Alberta"The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones"
That was a grat little speach he had there. While he does own stocks etc in NG he does make all the right points too. This whole getting off of fossil fuels shit really isn't going to do any good until someone comes up with a viable solution, and if that isn't happening anytime soon we should really be looking at ways to make due with that fuel sources we have available.
-U
What's cheap is CNG. LNG is a refined product like gasoline. There isn't much saving there.Originally posted by davidI
Links to studies?
Tough to believe that when AECO / Henry Hub is trading at $2, and WTI is $106, that NG won't be cheaper for a long time. Factoring in a 6:1 energy differential, we're then looking at $12 to $106. Gas prices would need to increase nearly 900% to catch up to oil right now.
I understand there are additional costs / energy inefficiencies associated with gas, but 10x? Doubtful.
C in CNG is compressed. You'll need a bigger tank and carry more weight. I'm not sure if tech had improved but MTA report showed that CNG buses loses about 2 passenger capacity compared to diesel.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...003_lowell.pdf
Turn to page 15 and 17 for maintenance items. CNG buses cost more to maintain. While I'm sure CNG is way cheaper now than 2003 but cost of hardware is high.
It is a bridge solution as he says, might be good for a few decades; buys some time until we figure out a better solution. Frankly the current climate is just moving money and wars over to the OPEC areas. How's this been working for us as a society so far?
At his age and wealth level, I doubt he cares much about money. Another billion is not going to buy him another week of life and he is smart enough to know this. Read the Wiki bio, he has given a massive amount of money away to universities and hospitals, etc.
Last edited by CanmoreOrLess; 03-20-2012 at 08:45 PM.
Decade old study?Originally posted by Xtrema
What's cheap is CNG. LNG is a refined product like gasoline. There isn't much saving there.
C in CNG is compressed. You'll need a bigger tank and carry more weight. I'm not sure if tech had improved but MTA report showed that CNG buses loses about 2 passenger capacity compared to diesel.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...003_lowell.pdf
Turn to page 15 and 17 for maintenance items. CNG buses cost more to maintain. While I'm sure CNG is way cheaper now than 2003 but cost of hardware is high.
EnCana shows a reasonable payback period.
EnCana Study
When I compared WTI to AECO/HH, they're both 'unrefined'. Not sure how you're saying there isn't much saving there. NG doesn't really need to be 'refined' anyways - it can flow through a separator and be compressed into CNG. A lot cheaper than piping crude to a refinery and then trucking out gasoline & diesel. LNG isn't 'refined' either, it's just cooled to -160C.
LinkyCost-effectiveness
TIAX LLC developed a thorough cost comparison report comparing 2010 year heavy-duty commercial diesel and natural gas vehicles. The financial model predicts that the break-even points for CNG for a refuse hauler, transit bus, and short haul heavy-duty truck are $22 barrel, $31 per barrel, and $28 per barrel of crude oil, respectively, in 2010 world oil prices. The world oil price per barrel * has been above $40 in most weeks since early 2005.
Significant co-funding opportunities may be available from a variety of sources to assist consumers with the purchase of NGVs or the construction of CNG fueling stations.
High performance
NGVs often deliver similar horsepower ratings to their diesel and gasoline-powered counterparts. Premium gasoline is 91 octane. Natural gas has an octane rating of approximately 130. This higher octane allows for increased engine compression and combustion efficiency. Because of the clean burning attributes of natural gas, NGVs generally have longer engine life compared to most gasoline-powered vehicles.
Also, with Shale Gas in the East, NG is now close to populated markets and trucking routes.
Last edited by davidI; 03-20-2012 at 10:46 PM.
Natural gas fluctuates too much in price.
Sure it might be $2.15 per MMBTU today, but one shouldn't forget that it was over $15 just a few years ago.
I see NG fueled cars to be exactly the same as propane powered cars. Initially, you will have some people that get on early and get cheap energy - but by the time it starts gaining momentum, the price rises to meet or exceed gasoline making it a near worthless endeavor.
http://www.wheels.ca/Columnists/article/793763
Besides the fact that you have to spend money to double the infrastructure to support multiple dispensers. It would be a massive undertaking, and in the end may not save any money or resources at all.
DXY 100
NG prices were high because there was less supply than demand in the past. Companies were even trying to recover gas from coal seams, an expensive process.
Frac technologies and shale gas has changed that. Natural gas reserves in the US are massive now. The only thing I can see forcing the price in the future is increased public backlash against fracing and laws or regulations preventing shale gas from being developed.
I don't necessarily see CNG as being the answer for passenger vehicles, but neither does Pickens. Heavy Trucks & Fleet Vehicles would make a huge difference alone.