Powerstroke vs Cummins vs Duramax (11/12s)

[AndyL]

Looking at taxes, fuck I need a big depreciating asset for next years tax season... So eyeballing the 11/12's 1ton duallies... (And I've been saying for a while, I need more capacity, brakes are supposed to last more than 3 months...)

Real world experiences please - how are these newly revised diesels with all this new emissions crap? All these greasy salesmen are claiming their diesel is perfect and the other 2 mfg'ers are crap... Yet all 3 had brand new diesels getting towed in while I was there...

And who are the Beyond Ford/Dodge/GM greasy new car salesmen? (I Kid I Kid!)

[SKR]

Read this:

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....kup-truck.html

I don't have any experience with the 11-12 diesels. But I will tell you that I think Dodges are way overpriced. I've never drove the new 400hp/800tq Cummins but the power curve looks peaky as hell, not nice and flat like a diesel is supposed to be. I can't imagine it drives like the old Cummins trucks.

[Supa Dexta]

Everyone made a big deal of the eco boost vids, so check out the HD vids by GM, theres a bunch of em.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Dodge or GM, I prefer GM.

[AndyL]

Honestly I don't like a single one of them... And it's a hold my nose scenario, as each and every one is way too f'in tall... (WTF is with that? Why is every >04ish truck over a foot taller than the older ones? The dodges drove me nuts - I can barely reach over the side of the box - it comes up to my armpits FFS, and I'm not short)

But meanwhile, in the comparison that matters - what's actually going to last a few years... There's not much for impartial info on these new DEF based diesels, as far as how they'll work in 50-100k.

I know there have been some issues with that old fleet I worked for's new dodges and F4/550s - but that might be an idling issue too... They didn't run any of the newer duramax's though (newest was 07ish?).

[swak]

Im a GM guy all the way!

Would never buy anything else again, but from what i've seen yea the GM trucks are a little lower down than the Ford series, still higher than the >04 trucks though...
I have no clue whats up with that to be honest, ego boost?

I drive a '00 Chev 1500, its not the nicest of trucks but it runs flawlessly (but am looking to upgrade), but she's pushing 418000 k.

This among many other reasons makes me stand firm with a GM truck.

[Rat Fink]

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[e31]

This stuff is reserved for the GM's and Fords.

[corsvette]

^^^ Good to hear the 6.7's are not blowing up yet. I nearly bought one a little while back, but it turned out the engine had some compression issues and Ford replaced the engine under warranty. The owner then decided to bump his price by 5k so i left it alone.

Andy L- I'd go with the Dmax. My Dad has a 08 and a 2011 (he keeps the 11 in arizona) Both have been great trucks. He removed the dpf on the 08 when it was new and has never had an issue. Might be a good idea to give the Ford a few years on the market with the new 6.7, just to make sure they hold up. The 6.4 was a gem when it first came out as well, but they turned out to be a turd.

[SideSwipe]

new duramax is very good. Lots of pulling power. That truck will surprise you... when you floor it its like someone strapped those short take off rockets from the C-130 to your ass. The older style engine (07 to 10 I think), the urea system was heated by the exhaust, so in the winter when it was cold out the truck didn't run too well. The system was fixed on the newer ones by an electric heater. The engine brake and the trailer brake is nice on hills.

Nothing against dodge... they pull really well and seem to be pretty reliable. Solid front end makes for a bumpy ride. But damn... those trucks are massive.

Ford... ford diesles will leave you stranded on the side of the road.

Go with a duramax.

[GT.....O?]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuqES...feature=relmfu

this video is why i would never buy a hd ford if i was actually planing on towing anything

[Maxt]

I am a big fan of the cummins motor, they are a proven design that generally outlasts all the other makes. The 6 cylinder design is inherently better for a diesel, each cylinder is on its own crank throw, with more main bearing support. It's also the only one that doesn't require UREA injection.
I am not sure what the deal is with that article going on about the allison, if anything if I were towing, I would go with the chassis cab 3500 and get the Cummins/Aisin combination. The Aisin is a commercial duty transmission.

[Supa Dexta]

Dodge has positioned itself as the 'affordable brand'.. So they would be out for me, just for that fact.

[Freeskier]

The landscaping company I used to work for only ever used fords. They'd tried dodge and chev in the past, but found the maintenance costs to be too high. I know the superduty I used would haul the bobcat no problem. It even had some pretty decent grunt off the line with a fully loaded bed and bobcat trailer.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
For the new Ford 6.7s, the biggest job I have done on one so far was replacing a turbo (4.7 hours through a TSB). Quite a few of the early build ones needed NOX sensors and reprograms for the NOX module. Our main diesel guy got to work on one where the owner put urea in his diesel tank (a whole 10L jug of urea). The urea hardens and the crystals took out the high pressure pump and comprimised the injectors. Ended up being a 14,000 dollar job through insurance to replace the whole fuel system and get it all running again. I think it was around 20 hours labor and the rest was all parts cost.

We had another guy who put gasoline in his diesel tank and drove 100 kms until it basically died. He refused to fix it properly so we flushed the system and ran new diesel through it and he drove away while losing warranty on his engine (it destroys high pressure pumps and then the metal filings contaminate the injectors).

We had a problem with hutterites buying 45 gallon drums of non approved urea (must meet the specs listed in the owners manual). It's not a one size fits all, I think there is some cheap junk out there that will wreck your ride. I'd be worried about previous owners running that crap through the truck before you buy it. In the cases with these hutterites, the urea system had to be replaced (happened when the trucks were almost new and you couldn't get the pump by itself at that time, had to get a whole tank assembly!!!). That one was around 4500 bucks each truck. Prices have probably come down by now I'm sure.

Besides owner inflicted damage (gas in diesel tank, or urea in diesel tank, or running non-approved urea) I'm pretty sure we haven't done anything major to a 6.7 yet at our dealer. I know we've never had to pull a valve cover off yet. I did that turbo, and replaced a faulty DPF as the most major things I've done. I think I've seen a few radiators go through as well.

I did hear a couple weeks ago about the other dealer in my city lifting the cab off of one so there must've been something major there but I couldn't tell you what happened with that one.

So far I'm happy with how the 6.7 is doing. Better than the 6.0L and far superior to the 6.4L but time will tell

My bosses dad has 4 6.7's.
So far, one has killed a rad, one had the egr tube leak and melt the right side washer nozzle out of the hood as per tsb. And one had the left valve cove gasket leak. Im willing to bet that one was the one that you heard about with the cab off. The funny thing is I looked at it today and its still leaking. so the cab is coming off again.
All 4 of these trucks pull a 14 000 pound trailer full of retreads about 1000km a week. Ide say that pretty good for the first year this engine came out.
The def on the ford would piss me off, but I guess its better than the new cummings particulate filter plugging and burning the truck down, and the brutal fuel milage. Should have never gotten rid of the 5.9. Even though im a big powerstroke fan ive got nothing bad to say about the duramax.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Dodge has positioned itself as the 'affordable brand'.. So they would be out for me, just for that fact.

Hmm, you are going to have to explain that rationale to me...
In terms of actual purchase cost, they have done nothing of the sort, they are one of the most expensive trucks you can buy. They have the best motor, and they know it.
If I go on their sites and price out a reg 4x4 diesel truck, the ford comes out more than 5k cheaper. Ford locally has been advertising new Diesels in the 30k range, they have become the bargain brand to try to regain market share, and get buyer confidence back. The used market is flooded with Ford trucks that you pretty much can't give away, be it 6.0, 6.4 or 6.7.
The Dodge dealer I bought my Jeep from, won't even take a Ford truck in on trade anymore.

Originally posted by HO2S


The def on the ford would piss me off, but I guess its better than the new cummings particulate filter plugging and burning the truck down, and the brutal fuel milage. Should have never gotten rid of the 5.9. Even though im a big powerstroke fan ive got nothing bad to say about the duramax.

I've got a few friends that are the Diesel specialists at the dealerships they work at, I have not heard of any cummins burning down. It was Ford that had the recall for the flame thrower exhaust that set fire to mudflaps, hedges and garage walls. . I have heard about a lot of DPF's being plugged due to people using their trucks as mopeds, unloaded trips for short distances for a long period of time. One tech I know has suggested that their dealer buy a trailer with 25,000 lbs of gravel in it as loaner tool to customers that plug off the DPF, make it work, makes some heat and clean it out. This is almost a common problem now across all 3 brands as people using them as Cowboy Cadillacs or idling them for excessive periods.
The 5.9 cummins had no real emissions equipment except for a catalytic converter in the later years, it was the last of the real bare bones diesels and is why they hold their value until the doors fall off, then the motor gets pulled and swapped into a 2010 super duty..

[SKR]

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the three diesels. They're all going to pull good, they're all going to get about the same mileage, they all have similar options, they all have their flaws, and not including sales or promotions they're all close in price. Go out, drive them all, and buy the one you like.

And then get a tuner and delete all the emissions equipment.

[Cos]

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[A3GTiVR6SC]

Cummins FTW!

[Jasons97tj]

They all have their goods and bads. I drive a 2010 laramie cummins and absolutely love it and wouldn't trade it for anything on the market right now. GM is supposed to be updating their styling in the next couple years as they severly need it right now since their interior is hideous compared to the dodges and fords. the dodge 68rfe tranny is brutal if you put any extra power behind it just like the allison but the allison is a much better performing tranny stock. For the fords I have a friend that has a 345hp spartan tune and another friend with a 310hp spartan tune with the stock trans and both are holding up. Then of course.... you have to run a powerstroke where almost any work that needs to be done on the engine you have to pull the cab off. Dodge is the only one of the three not running urea (DEF) until a rumoured 2013.5 model when they are supposed to be adding it. I wouldn't say urea is a huge deal since you can get a programmer and delete all of the environmental stuff like DPF, DEF, EGR/EGR cooler. I had my truck for about 15000kms before I got rid of everything in search of better milage and wow did it ever help! Also, most warranty work that a truck will go in for will usually be on the exhaust stuff that I've pulled off. Anyways... I love my cummins sooo... Go cummins!!