Armoured Car Robbery Leaves 3 Dead and 1 in Critical Condition

[Thaco]

Originally posted by masoncgy


Let's hope so. Save us all a bunch of wasted tax dollars keeping him locked up for life. He could sit in prison for over 60 years given he's only 21.

"could" but wont, he'll be out in 10.

[lilmira]

Sounds like the perfect cellmate for Magnotta

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Thaco
"could" but wont, he'll be out in 10.

No, he'll be put in a psych ward, get some meds and be out in 5, I'm sure. Lets hope he really is a coward.

[sillysod]

^^ yup...

[clem24]

A multiple murderer will not leave jail.. Clifford Olson was denied everytime he applied. You can't just plead insanity. Unless this guy really was insane, a psychiatric assessment will find him not insane. The only multiple killer that ever got away was probably Karla Hamolka and that's only because of a plea deal. You guys have so little faith in the justice system.

[sillysod]

Michelle Shegelski was one of the victims in an armoured car robbery at HUB Mall at the University of Alberta on June 15, 2012.

Her FB

Edmonton Journal Story





RIP

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by clem24
A multiple murderer will not leave jail.. Clifford Olson was denied everytime he applied. You can't just plead insanity. Unless this guy really was insane, a psychiatric assessment will find him not insane. The only multiple killer that ever got away was probably Karla Hamolka and that's only because of a plea deal. You guys have so little faith in the justice system.

The "i wonder if ill make the 6 oclock news" post pretty much throws any insane plea out the window.

[Rat Fink]

.

[95EagleAWD]

Since I'm now 100%, officially OUT of the industry, I'll say this:

I spent ten years in the industry, between two companies. The following is my opinion, and mine only.

The training is TERRIBLE. There's no two ways about it. You spend three days on the range, even if you've never touched a gun before. That's not too bad, since guns are actually quite easy to learn to shoot. I'm not saying people need to be marksmen, but they should be decent. And most of them aren't. I've seen people passed at every company on their qualifications even though they failed the tests multiple times and have NO business carrying a firearm. It's ridiculous. If you can't shoot, then you shouldn't be working there. It's for your safety, the people you work with, and the public.

The type of shooting, though, is what kills me. NOBODY trains at night, even though over 50% of the personnel work at night. That's fucking retarded. Shooting at night is WAY different than being on the range during the day. There's no unusual shooting. Everything is done from a standing position or a knee. Nothing from your back, or behind cover, or prone hiding behind a desk or some shit, since that's probably how it's going to happen. I know I sure as shit wouldn't be standing straight up and shooting back. I'd be hiding and taking potshots if I felt safe to do it. This 100% NEEDS to change.

The fact that companies don't issue MANDATORY body armour is retarded. Every cop has to wear a vest. Why not these guards? Hell, EMS wears vests. We got our vest at NAIT for FREE, and we don't even carry firearms.

The equipment is outdated and, IMO, useless. Brinks has finally gone to new automatic pistols, which is great. G4S and SG still use the .38 or .357 revolvers. That's absurd. Those guns are actually about 40 years old. SG has had .40 caliber Glocks in the office for three years now, but the company is too CHEAP to pay for the conversion training. That's bullshit. Those guns will save somebodies life one day. There's no reason why they aren't being carried. Brinks and G4S still use 12 gauge shotguns, and SG has not carried them in years. Also, IMO, a useless weapon. Shotguns are big, heavy and I've never seen anyone at either company shoot one well. They need to be phased out in favor of more modern heavy weaponry like a carbine AR-15. They're not difficult to operate, and they offer an extremely accurate, easy to shoot, small, light package to work with. I learned how to shoot a C7A2 in one day in the military; it's not a hard weapon. Otherwise, I'd say the guards will ALWAYS be outgunned.

They also need to change the way these weapons are used. Right now, guns MUST be holstered, per law and all company policy. That is insanity. When police go into dangerous situations, they have unholstered weapons. Why are guards so limited? Standing guard at night while your partner loads an ATM with a gun in your holster is retarded. That gun should be in the guard's hand, or he should be carrying the AR-15 previously mentioned. The best part of carrying a gun is it scares the hell out of people... as it should. Would you actually approach a Brinks guard holding an AR-15 across his chest? Nope. You'd leave him the hell alone, because he looks ready to kill you if you screw around. That's the way it should be!

Procedures: These change from various companies, and I'm not saying anything about them, but the thing is they are NEVER practiced. You never have training days in a parking lot, to play out scenarios that involve people and a truck to get into these procedures. They're talked about but never practiced. This also needs to change.

Hiring process: As of right now, there's no psych test for any of the companies, AFAIK. They assume because you have a restricted PAL, you're good to go. After today, this BETTER change.

The industry is about 30 years behind reality right now. And people will die because of it.

Now, would any of this helped today? Absolutely not. Today was cold-blooded, heartless, unexpected murder. A senseless tragedy and my heart goes out to those affected by it.

[m10-power]

^ I'd counter and say these cash guards shouldn't be carrying ANY guns. They should have a zero resist policy, should still be provided vests but trained to drop and flee. Arm them with live feed HD cameras to record what happens to prevent killing witnesses as a tactic.

Last thing I want to see is rent a cops with assult rifles unloading in gun fights in populated areas, terrible idea.

Sad to see working people get killed for money, the perps have zero chance of getting away. Hopefully they realize that and eat some bullets.

[sillysod]

Have to agree, IMO it's not worth losing you life over money that isn't even your own. These poor people were just trying to pay their bills and maybe buy some beer on the weekend. They should be trained to just hand that shit over.

[zarge]

Originally posted by m10-power
^ I'd counter and say these cash guards shouldn't be carrying ANY guns. They should have a zero resist policy, should still be provided vests but trained to drop and flee. Arm them with live feed HD cameras to record what happens to prevent killing witnesses as a tactic.

Last thing I want to see is rent a cops with assult rifles unloading in gun fights in populated areas, terrible idea.

Sad to see working people get killed for money, the perps have zero chance of getting away. Hopefully they realize that and eat some bullets.

agreed, said that to my GF earlier!

[Thaco]

Yep,

minimum wage+gun= inevitable

[Ben]

As someone who is well trained in the use of AR's and Sidearms in the line of duty, you have to try and take into account any imaginable situation, and then some of those that are outside the scope of imaginable. Think about what you'd be thinking if you were fired upon without warning, I'd sure love to send some well placed return fire when pinned down somewhere provided I survived the initial attack. More training, ABSOLUTELY. No guns, fuck that.

Yeah, the money is federally insured, but your life really isnt. They cant print more you, and a cheque cut to your beneficiary just doesn't have the same affect alone at night. I'm a firm believer in having it and not needing it than needing it and not having it. Some people truly have ZERO regard for human life and will shoot you regardless of if you just hand it over, simply to "eliminate eyes that testify".

My utmost condolences to everyone related to the victims be it friends, family and colleagues.

[IRL]

Originally posted by Thaco
Yep,

minimum wage+gun= inevitable

G4S/Brinks makes 22-24 per hour...not sure that qualify's as minimum wage, but I agree not enough to risk your life for.

[m10-power]

Originally posted by Ben
As someone who is well trained in the use of AR's and Sidearms in the line of duty, you have to try and take into account any imaginable situation, and then some of those that are outside the scope of imaginable. Think about what you'd be thinking if you were fired upon without warning, I'd sure love to send some well placed return fire when pinned down somewhere provided I survived the initial attack. More training, ABSOLUTELY. No guns, fuck that.

Yeah, the money is federally insured, but your life really isnt. I'm a firm believer in having it and not needing it than needing it and not having it. Some people truly have ZERO regard for human life and will shoot you regardless of if you just hand it over, simply to "eliminate eyes that testify".

My utmost condolences to everyone related to the victims be it friends, family and colleagues.

I was trained in the military to handle all kinds of firearms, and while I understand what your saying look at it from the robbers point of view. If they are desprate enough to rob them knowing they have guns and are poorly trained they know they must be prepared to kill them. If they knew they didnt have guns and would hand over the money without struggle they wouldnt need to risk more then armed robbery. The guards having guns I dont think is a deterent, it just puts them and the public at more risk, for what? Insured money...for low pay.

[Ben]

Originally posted by m10-power


I was trained in the military to handle all kinds of firearms, and while I understand what your saying look at it from the robbers point of view. If they are desprate enough to rob them knowing they have guns and are poorly trained they know they must be prepared to kill them. If they knew they didnt have guns and would hand over the money without struggle they wouldnt need to risk more then armed robbery. The guards having guns I dont think is a deterent, it just puts them and the public at more risk, for what? Insured money...for low pay.

I hear ya there, but would we then have this happen a LOT more often, I need a couple Mill...and they'll give it up without question and no harm can come of me, so what the hell...

I think the off chance someone considering robbing an armored car decides that perhaps one or more of the guards KNOWs how to handle a 38 or 9mm likely puts off the idea for most. Just because their training is shit, doesn't mean some don't visit the shooting range regularly, or are ex military...or both...or neither...its the chance...

just playing the other side of the coin

Originally posted by IRL


G4S/Brinks makes 22-24 per hour...not sure that qualify's as minimum wage, but I agree not enough to risk your life for.

Someone I know applied a year or 2 ago and it was 16 or 17 an hour, because you're hired as a casual until you have a FT slot open up and that could take years, which is then at the 22 or so dollar an hour figure. Could be misinformed...

[m10-power]

Reality is the perps will get caught way more often then not anyways. If there was 10 times more robberies without dead guards it would be better imo. But I dont think the number of robberies would increase much.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by m10-power
^ I'd counter and say these cash guards shouldn't be carrying ANY guns. They should have a zero resist policy, should still be provided vests but trained to drop and flee. Arm them with live feed HD cameras to record what happens to prevent killing witnesses as a tactic.

Last thing I want to see is rent a cops with assult rifles unloading in gun fights in populated areas, terrible idea.

Sad to see working people get killed for money, the perps have zero chance of getting away. Hopefully they realize that and eat some bullets.

That's certainly the other side of the coin. With better firepower would have to come better training, no question about it.

[v2kai]

RIP to the victims.

The perpetrator deserves to be skinned alive. Such a mindless waste of life.

We have semi automated garbage pickup trucks, maybe its time to look into a semi automated ATM management system.