Apple v. Samsung, who copied who? The court battle begins.

[supe]

Originally posted by rage2
The store isn't part of the case. But it does go to show that Samsung tried to copy Apple all the way from product, to interface, to packaging, to retail.

I think the point is that the interface, the packaging and the retail are not proprietary, I commend Apple for creating a business model that works, but its nothing revolutionary and arguably not patentable.

In every other industry all competitors market package and deliver products in all the same way, why should it be any different in the mobile market?

[rage2]

Ya, all conversation pieces, that's all. Collectively, when you step back and look at it, it's pretty blatant, but you're right, packaging and retail are not patentable, and hence not part of the case.

The only patents in question are physical design, home screen design, and parts of the interface are before the courts. Patents are fucked, no different than Amazon's 1 click, which incidently, Apple pays licensing fees to Amazon to use that on their online store.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by supe


I think the point is that the interface, the packaging and the retail are not proprietary, I commend Apple for creating a business model that works, but its nothing revolutionary and arguably not patentable.

In every other industry all competitors market package and deliver products in all the same way, why should it be any different in the mobile market?

No the actual point is that Samsung is trying to copy and ride the iPhone and iPad train.

The words iPhone, iPad are starting to be like Kleenex and Xerox. Here in the states, Kleenex and Xerox are two brands, but people use them as slang for any of the same category product. iPod is the same, when someone wants an mp3 player, they say "get an iPod".

These days when people think of tablets they think of iPads, even if that Samsung Tab isn't an iPad, it is that "iPad like thingy". So instead, lets just make it look similar, because we might be able to catch a portion of the market that doesn't know or care to know the differences, they just want the item. Old people do this all the time, uninformed teens do this, etc.

So screw it, instead of being innovative and make our own methods, designs, etc, lets just ride this hot gravy train.

Nokia phones look different, Motorola phones look different, Blackberry is different etc. Why can't Samsung?

The box designs were just to show Samsung knows exactly what it is doing.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Zephyr

So screw it, instead of being innovative and make our own methods, designs, etc, lets just ride this hot gravy train.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying except this.

Apple has made its fortune taking something that was already in existence and making it pretty/upscale. Nothing wrong with it at all its just very pot-kettle.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Kavy


I agree with a lot of what you are saying except this.

Apple has made its fortune taking something that was already in existence and making it pretty/upscale. Nothing wrong with it at all its just very pot-kettle.

A4, A5 A5X chips are all blue printed and designed in house by Apple, and contracted out to Samsung Semiconductor to manufacture. Apple uni body aluminum cases are designed in house by Apple and contracted out to Foxconn to machine and make. Just because they don't manufacture the parts, doesn't mean they didn't design it. It's not feasible to construct a large manufacturing infrastructure when they can simply contract it out to existing companies with very capable systems.

Yes there are many Apple machines that use components from other companies, Intel chip sets, memory chips, hard drive, graphics chipsets. But I do know that chip sets they use are different from the rest of the industry due to their OS and also their own requirements, so everything is "tweeked" along side Apple engineers. I have quite a few friends that work for component companies, and three of them deal with this daily.

[Markll7]

I'm really interested to see how the outcome of this affects Apple's and Samsung's manufacturing relationship.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Markll7
I'm really interested to see how the outcome of this affects Apple's and Samsung's manufacturing relationship.

Nothing will happen. Samsung Semiconductor and Samsung Mobile are two separate independent divisions. Samsung isn't the only manufacturer in the world either.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Zephyr


A4, A5 A5X chips are all blue printed and designed in house by Apple, and contracted out to Samsung Semiconductor to manufacture. Apple uni body aluminum cases are designed in house by Apple and contracted out to Foxconn to machine and make. Just because they don't manufacture the parts, doesn't mean they didn't design it. It's not feasible to construct a large manufacturing infrastructure when they can simply contract it out to existing companies with very capable systems.

Your post completely backs up what I said in my post. Apple made its fortune taking something already in existence and making it pretty/upscale.

So they made their own chip design, they didn't invent the CPU they only engineered it to work strongly with their devices.
They didnt invent the unibody design they made it sturdy and attractive even tho HTC, Sony, Motorola and nokia have all used unibody designs for many many years

I have a feeling this thread will go downhill as most threads that involve apple vs ______.



*on a side note I do agree design wise Samsung took the leader in the industry and put together a near identical looking lineup.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Kavy


Your post completely backs up what I said in my post. Apple made its fortune taking something already in existence and making it pretty/upscale.

So they made their own chip design, they didn't invent the CPU they only engineered it to work strongly with their devices.
They didnt invent the unibody design they made it sturdy and attractive even tho HTC, Sony, Motorola and nokia have all used unibody designs for many many years

I have a feeling this thread will go downhill as most threads that involve apple vs ______.



*on a side note I do agree design wise Samsung took the leader in the industry and put together a near identical looking lineup.

I'm talking about unibody laptops...which motorola, sony, htc and nokia don't have. I think sony might have one now as an ultrabook? Not 100% sure.

But what you said is basically Apple makes a computer, which everyone else does too, but they charge more. What I'm saying is that Apple makes a laptop but tweeks and also designs their own components.

Apple makes their own phone interface, designs the hardware style and interface icons. Samsung takes that style, and makes something similar to look somewhat identical, but has a different name. Why not just make your own and show me why your idea is better? That's what competition should be like.

I'll gladly use a Samsung phone if they came up with their own original ideas. I've had a Nokia Lumia for a little bit, that thing was decent.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by rage2

Spoken like a true Apple hater haha.

Your points are somewhat valid, but, collectively speaking, it's very similar and confuses consumers. Look at how it looks, Best Buy or Sony Store looks nothing like this:

[im]http://cdn.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/large/public/field/image/2012/07/Samsung%20Apple%20Store%20Rip%20Off.jpg[/img]

vs Apple Store:

[im]http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2011/02/applestoredrug.jpg[/img]

http://www.imore.com/samsung-opens-i...ly-apple-store

It's an Apple logo short of a China knockoff Apple store.

How does it confuse consumers? What kind of an idiot walks into a "Samsung" store full of Samsung products thinking they are buying an ipad? Apple must think their customers are complete morons.. oh wait.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Zephyr


I'm talking about unibody laptops...which motorola, sony, htc and nokia don't have. I think sony might have one now as an ultrabook? Not 100% sure.

But what you said is basically Apple makes a computer, which everyone else does too, but they charge more. What I'm saying is that Apple makes a laptop but tweeks and also designs their own components.

Apple makes their own phone interface, designs the hardware style and interface icons. Samsung takes that style, and makes something similar to look somewhat identical, but has a different name. Why not just make your own and show me why your idea is better? That's what competition should be like.

I'll gladly use a Samsung phone if they came up with their own original ideas. I've had a Nokia Lumia for a little bit, that thing was decent.

"Unibody laptop"?? Like what the US military invented/developed?

What is your answer for the Samsung F700 that came before the Iphone?

Nothing Apple came up with in terms of phones is strictly novel.

Apple certainly does not build their own components either.

And then size.... Apple screens are lagging in size. Should someone patent screens over 4" on phones then Sue apple before it builds their new Iphone?

All still stupid.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Toma


"Unibody laptop"?? Like what the US military invented/developed?

What is your answer for the Samsung F700 that came before the Iphone?

Nothing Apple came up with in terms of phones is strictly novel.

Apple certainly does not build their own components either.

And then size.... Apple screens are lagging in size. Should someone patent screens over 4" on phones then Sue apple before it builds their new Iphone?

All still stupid.

Last time I checked, the US military used pretty beefy IBM laptops that were not uni body aluminum, but were heavy duty plastic of some sort.

I posted links that contain the F700 too

Honestly someone can probably patent a 4" screen and sue. Our US patent system would allow that easily.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Zephyr


Last time I checked, the US military used pretty beefy IBM laptops that were not uni body aluminum, but were heavy duty plastic of some sort.

I posted links that contain the F700 too

Honestly someone can probably patent a 4" screen and sue. Our US patent system would allow that easily.

I'm a little jealous I didn't patent a bunch of brutally obvious generic ideas so I could get paid.

Like having the icon for making phone calls being a picture of a phone...

[Toma]

Originally posted by Unknown303


I'm a little jealous I didn't patent a bunch of brutally obvious generic ideas so I could get paid.

Like having the icon for making phone calls being a picture of a phone...

[Toma]

Originally posted by Toma
LOL.... the 1968 movie "2001 a Space Odyssey" shows an 'Ipad' in use Fucking Apple should sue them too!

[rage2]

Originally posted by ZEDGE
How does it confuse consumers? What kind of an idiot walks into a "Samsung" store full of Samsung products thinking they are buying an ipad? Apple must think their customers are complete morons.. oh wait.

There's lots of uninformed consumers out there, not everyone is a techno-nerd like we are. Best Buy complained that people were buying Samsung products and returning them because they thought they bought an iPad. That's evidence in the case.

Fact is, kid wants an iPad, grandma goes to buy it and gets a Samsung one thinking it's the same thing. Guarantee you it happens everyday.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by rage2

There's lots of uninformed consumers out there, not everyone is a techno-nerd like we are. Best Buy complained that people were buying Samsung products and returning them because they thought they bought an iPad. That's evidence in the case.

Fact is, kid wants an iPad, grandma goes to buy it and gets a Samsung one thinking it's the same thing. Guarantee you it happens everyday.

But that's how old people always are about everything. You tell them you want something specific and they turn around and buy something that costs less but fits into the same category. Like asking for an Xbox or PS3 and winding up with a Wii.

[btimbit]

Hey Apple, how about making some new products. And I don't mean a "new" iphone that is just slightly thinner and has all the same features.

Apple, the next RIM for sure. Riding out past accomplishments for as long as possible before somehow running out of money.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Toma
Apple certainly does not build their own components either.

Very few people build "their own" stuff anymore. Crack open any modern electronic device, how many names on the components inside match the name on the outside?

And then size.... Apple screens are lagging in size.

The reason they haven't made bigger screens is because of one handed usage: http://gizmodo.com/5847981/this-is-w...s-be-35-inches

As for the whole battle, is Apple being a bully? Yes, undoubtedly so; however as already mentioned, the real culprit is the US patent system. It's so broken in the tech world that anyone can sue anyone else for almost anything.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Eleanor
The reason they haven't made bigger screens is because of one handed usage: http://gizmodo.com/5847981/this-is-w...s-be-35-inches

LOL at people with small hands. I have the SII and can touch anywhere on the screen with one hand.