Mirrorless recommendations

[Unknown303]

Just wondering what people are using and what you'd recommend. I know there's quite a spread but I'm looking to get something either mid level or higher to try out.

[dragonone]

i recently traveled w/ an OMD and the kit 12-50 as well as the panny 20mm. very versatile and easy on the shoulders. the body and the kits lens are also weather-proof, and i unfortunately ran into gloomy weather during the week so that was handy, along with the 5-axis IBIS. when you go look up the results you can get w/ the 12mm, 25mm, 75mm, you'll be pleased.

it was this or the nex-6 but their lens selection leaves so much to be desired at the moment.

[blitz]

I've tried almost all of the major ones over the last 3 years.

m43 (GF-1, GX-1, EPL-1)
Fuji X100
Sony (NEX5 & NEX6)

I'd have to say the NEX6 is pretty damn awesome with the collapsible 16-50mm kit lens. Micro 43 has a much better lens selection than NEX at the moment, but Sony is catching up.

I bought the NEX-6 to use with some of my other manual focus glass, if I was looking at starting a whole new system, I probably would have gone with a Fuji EX-1 with the 18-55mm kit lens and a 35mm 1.4.

You best bet is to go down to The Camera Store and play around with them all. They're all good these days, it just comes down to finding the right combination between size, price and lens selection that works for you.

A good short list is probably:

Sony NEX-5R or NEX-6
Olympus OM-D or Panasonic GX-1
Fuji EX-1

I'd personally stay away from:

Nikon
Canon
Samsung
Pentax

[mboldt]

The bigger sensor in the NEX series definitely helps with image quality. Lens selection is definitely broader with the M4/3 system, but if you just intend to get a couple lenses (telephoto, portrait, standard) then the Sony system would be fine.

I have previously owned the NEX5N and Panasonic GF2 and there was a noticeable difference in image quality especially at higher ISO (low light, no flash). Bigger sensor prevails.

If you are considering a camera with a viewfinder, the Sony NEX6/7 viewfinder is much nicer than the Fuji XE1's IMO. The XE1 seems to be a bit laggy or have a slow refresh rate when moving/moving subjects pass the frame (Maybe in the future they'll fix that with a firmware update).

The Nikon 1 series is basically an interchangeable P&S camera. Image quality is definitely better in the cameras with bigger chips like the M43 or Sony.

Personally I plan to pickup an NEX6 for basic stuff. Built in flash, viewfinder, and the power zoom 16-50mm make it very compact.

[maxomilll]

blitz and mbolt, why the nex6 over the 7?

[blitz]

Cheaper, faster AF, better noise performance. For me particularly, the 6 automatically corrects corner colour casting for Leica lenses, where the 7 doesn't.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Nex 6 would be my pick right now. Best combination of size and image quality, and they threw in phase detection AF. Only downside is some of the lenses can get quite big because they have to cover the image circle of a larger sensor. Camera body itself is one of the smallest though, and very well built.

Olympus OMD or Nikon V1/V2 would be my second choice if I wanted a smaller sensor.

Nikon V1 is EXTREMELY cheap right now and it easily the top performer in all areas except image quality, as it uses a much smaller sensor than the Sony NEX. AF, continuous shooting, buffer, etc. is all top of the heap. It only has a 1" sensor though.

Nikon V2 hasn't really been tested yet, but no real improvement in image quality from what I understand (Not bad, just not as good as something like the NEX). Changes were largely ergonomic.

So yeah, Nex 6 16-50mm kit is what I'd get right now if I wanted to spend around $1000 on mirrorless. Nikon V1 if you want to spend as little as possible and still have a good cam ($370 with lens, normally $800).

Fuji X-E1 looks excellent, but it's $1400 w/lens. Fuji is also refreshing these cameras shortly to include phase detect AF so if you like them, maybe wait a bit.

Canon EOS-M was a bit of a failure (7yr old sensor tech + lethargic AF+ almost no external control). Probably will need to wait a bit before that one really shines.

Lol some guy on sony.ca gave the Nex 6 1/5 stars because he couldn't use the battery from his previous Nex. Perfect example of why never to trust internet reviews haha.

[Unknown303]

Thanks for the information. The Nex-6 was the camera I kept looking at the most too. I just have to get to a store and play with one for a bit and see how it feels.

[ga16i]

I've only had long term personal experience with the Olympus E-PL1, and E-PL2, and some very brief instore experience with the Nikon 1 series.

I think most higher end bodies share a sensor with a lower end model and you pay for some creature comforts rather than a better sensor. At least that's the case with Olympus models.

Why are you considering mirrorless camera? Is it the size and weight that's luring you? If so, the m4/3 line from Panasonic has two highly regarded pancake primes plus a collapsible pancake zoom.

I went with Olympus for the abysmal resell value (I buy at rock bottom pricing and plan to sell it back when upgrading) and the "Olympus colours" straight out of camera. A mode dial is important to me and switch between M and A quite often, so I'd stick to the PLx and Px line along with the OM-D E-M5.

I just plain don't like the Nikon 1 series, holding the camera just felt wrong. Olympus is known for crazy amount of menu options, but I found trying to do anything with the Nikon 1 menu system very frustrating. It seemed like everything is hidden in menus within menus. The lack of a PASM mode dial puts it right off my list. The wife and I did not find what we call "squiggle" mode useable. We were considering it as a body for either one of us, but instore experience just turned us completely off of it.

[Unknown303]

I have a 5D Mark 1 currently and want to get something new. I'm not really sure if I want to get into a Mark 2 or 3 as I really just use the camera around the house for pictures of the kid these days and I'm always a little apprehensive of taking it out snowboarding or out on the trails when I'm offroading. I figure the Mirrorless systems being smaller and a little easier to pack around may push me to take it out more and get more use out of it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Unknown303
I have a 5D Mark 1 currently and want to get something new. I'm not really sure if I want to get into a Mark 2 or 3 as I really just use the camera around the house for pictures of the kid these days and I'm always a little apprehensive of taking it out snowboarding or out on the trails when I'm offroading. I figure the Mirrorless systems being smaller and a little easier to pack around may push me to take it out more and get more use out of it.

If you plan on using it to take pictures of moving things (snowboarders, children, off road vehicles, etc.) IMO you should limit your search to the cameras with phase detect AF or I think you will be rather disappointed.

That would be the Nex cameras, the Nikon V1/V2, or the new Fuji's coming out in a bit.

And to your other point, definitely get the Mark 3 over the 5D Mark 2 if you're staying Canon. MK 2's don't like cold weather at all either, if you ever take it snowboarding.

[taemo]

^never had problems with my MKII out in the snow, -20C or even at the top of Mt Haleakala in Maui when it was literally all wet due to the clouds.

needless to say, I don't bring my DSLR when snowboarding as I fall once in a while and I fear breaking my gear lol, have my fiance's trusted Panasonic TS3 for that.

Unknown303, do you shoot with a fast prime? I honestly never had issues shooting at f1.4 or f2 at ISO 400-800 with the 5Dc and makes great portrait shots but I know what you mean about DSLR being bulky. hence why I decided to grab an X100.

i got to briefly try the GF1, NEX5 and NEX7 and read about the other series (always wanted to give the E-P3 and OMD5 a try) but from what I've read/heard, the NEX6 is the current to go to at the moment.
lens selection is not as big as the m43 system but it will get your job done.

one thing I've never liked about mirrorless cameras is how small they are, making it hard to have a solid grip like DSLRs.

[Unknown303]

I have the nifty fifty for it and a 28-70 2.8 sigma for it. The times I've actualyl packed it out snowboarding it has frozen up so fast it wasn't even funny. Although it was super cold when I went out that time.

I'm just starting to itch for something new, and don't know if for what I use it for dropping 3000 on a Mark 3 may be overkill. Plus having that minor added portability of a mirrorless could be a nice feature.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by taemo
^never had problems with my MKII out in the snow, -20C or even at the top of Mt Haleakala in Maui when it was literally all wet due to the clouds.

Aside from user testimony, this is the best real-world cold weather test I've seen for DSLRs, a 2009 Photo Expedition to Antarctica that included pretty well every popular DSLR brand. He had a number of: Canon, Nikon, Sony, Hasselblad, Mamiya, Fuji, Contax, Panasonic and PhaseOne bodies.

With the exception of one Hasselblad, all camera body failures were Canon 5DM2, G9's, 1DS3 and 1D3's, the majority of which were 5DM2s. One Nikon 80-400 lens also failed. Some failures were irreversible.

It's an interesting read actually, sounds like a cool trip.

With 77 photographers and instructors onboard there were naturally-enough a lot of different cameras and lenses to be found.

Shooting conditions were mostly benign, though we did have light rain on a couple of days early-on during some shore landings, and salt spray was always an issue. Temperatures were moderate, ranging from about +2C to -3C during our two weeks at the Peninsula. Since it was -30C in Toronto for a few days during that time, Antarctica was positively balmy by comparison.

About 70% of the expedition members and instructors were shooting Canon, and some 30% were shooting with Nikons. Lots of D700's among the Nikon crowd. Of the Canon shooters a surprising 50%, a total of 26 people, had the new 5D MKII, while among the Nikon shooters there was just one D3x (other than the test sample I was carrying).

There were also ten Phase One backs on a mix of Hasselblads and Phase One / Mamiya cameras, and one Imacon (Hasselblad) back. I was the sole Sony DSLR shooter, and there were also a Fuji GX 617, a Hasselblad Xpan, and a Contax 645 system shooting film, along with one Panasonic G1 and a bevy of Canon G10's.

There were unfortunately a number of camera and lens failures. Weather was the culprit in some cases but salt spray and hard knocks in others.

Failures
In a summary session on the last day at the Peninsula I asked everyone to report on any equipment failures. Here's the tally.

The top LCD on a 5D MKII spontaneously cracked; Another 5D MKII had a jambed on lens caused by a loose screw, a 1Ds MKIII reported intermittent problems; a 1D MKIII kept reporting Error 99; one Hasselblad reported electronic lens connection problems; two Canon G9's failed (no G10s had any reported problems), and a Nikon 80-400mm lens came apart. No Nikon bodies (mostly D700s) failed in any way.

The largest group of failures through were among the Canon 5D MKIIs. Of the 26 samples of this camera onboard, one quarter (six) failed at one time or another, and while three recovered, the other three never did. In all cases it appeared to be water or humidity damage. Of particular concern were two cameras which stopped working while completely protected within Kata rain covers during a light rain ashore. They came back to life the following day though and were mostly fine for the rest of the trip, but one died permenently just before the end of our voyage.

Several people noted that when returning to the ship after working in light rain 5D MKIIs with vertical battery grips tended to collect water in between the grip and the base – something that may have been the cause of some of the failures.

I should note that the 5D MKII's are not rated as weather resistant, but then neither are the Sony A900's. I deliberately allowed both of my A900 bodies be exposed to the rain for two days ashore to see how they would stand up. There were no operational difficulties. I also have used the Sonys back here in Toronto in snow storms, (unprotected), both before and after the Antarctic trip, with no ill effects. Though also not claimed as weather sealed, they appear to be as well protected as any other camera I've ever used.

As for the failed Canon 5D MKIIs, I hope that expedition members will report back to me with what Canon service has to say about what happened to them. As for the loaner that we had, Canon says that it was a unit that had been in circulation for testing prior to coming my way and it might have suffered some water damage previously.

I don't know what conclusions should be drawn from this high percentage of 5D MKII failures. All I can do is report on the facts of the matter. As for the weather during which most of the failures happened, it was no worse than a drizzly day in winter in New York or Berlin. Nothing Antarctic about it at all.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es...9-worked.shtml

Anyways, I personally wouldn't trust one for any length of time in poor weather (cold and/or wet) if there were that many failures in temperatures hovering around 0 Degrees C and some rain.

[rage2]

Originally posted by mboldt
I have previously owned the NEX5N and Panasonic GF2 and there was a noticeable difference in image quality especially at higher ISO (low light, no flash). Bigger sensor prevails.

The GX1 was a huge improvement over the GF2/3 even though sensor size is the same. Definately closed the gap to APS-C sensor DSLRs, especially in low light. I haven't compared it to the NEX's tho.

I do 90% of my shooting nowadays with the GX1 with the pancake zoom. It's so compact, I pretty much carry it wherever I go.

[kvg]

I have owned and used numerous mirrorless bodys(x100,gf1,gx1,om-d,nex3/5) and currently have a Panasonic GX1 and a Canon 5D MKii. I use mirrorless as my primary system and IMO the Olympus OM-D is the best overall camera I have ever used. The 5 axis stabilization is amazing and the jpegs are still sharp and relatively clean at iso6400. I keep the gx1 because its smaller and has a built in flash for convenience, but I will probably still eventually get a OM-D. The af is crazy fast and accurate even with motion and the touch screen to focus/take a photo is really convenient.

[taemo]

because the article is dated back in Feb 09 and the Mark II was just recently released a few months before it, my guess is that the first batches of Mark II had poor QC.
I wish someone would do another comprehensive report for 2010-2012

my 5DII and remote cord were dripping water on all sides, had to wipe the lens a couple of times.
it has been splashed by both rain and salt water, yet it's still running strong.

but my point being is any camera is usable at any condition, as long as you know how to take care and protect it from damage.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by taemo
because the article is dated back in Feb 09 and the Mark II was just recently released a few months before it, my guess is that the first batches of Mark II had poor QC.
I wish someone would do another comprehensive report for 2010-2012

my 5DII and remote cord were dripping water on all sides, had to wipe the lens a couple of times.
it has been splashed by both rain and salt water, yet it's still running strong.

but my point being is any camera is usable at any condition, as long as you know how to take care and protect it from damage.

Could be, who knows. I wouldn't think they silently increase the dust/weather sealing by a huge margin and not tell anyone though, as it was never advertised as being well sealed in the first place. Some of the cameras didn't fail, so it's not like every single one failed. I wouldn't trust any camera from any brand in wet conditions unless it was completely sealed but then again I am overly anal haha.

I'd also be curious to see a 2011/12 report from a similar expedition. I know the 5DM3 is sealed better than the 5DM2, but still is not a proper 1pc alloy build. I wouldn't be surprised if some cameras aren't built like they used to be (just like pretty much everything else haha).

I did read a more recent report on some guy who took cameras to the Amazon jungle for a long period of time and pretty much everything failed! It was just too much.

[kvg]

I had my 5d mkii and a non sealed lens out in Saskatchewan a couple weeks ago in colder than -30 before wind chill and had no problems

[Unknown303]

My main reason I am starting to look at mirrorless is so I can have a decent camera to take photos but video as well is I feel the need. Obviously the Mark 1 doesn't do video, and I'd have to invest a fair bit to get into a Mark 3..