Quantcast
Advice? - Builders lien by sub for garage built by Shaw Renovation & Construction - Beyond.ca - Car Forums
Page 1 of 3 1 2 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 49

Thread: Advice? - Builders lien by sub for garage built by Shaw Renovation & Construction

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Alberta
    My Ride
    '72 Volvo 1800E / '11 Escape
    Posts
    61
    Rep Power
    0

    Thumbs down Advice? - Builders lien by sub for garage built by Shaw Renovation & Construction

    *short*
    -contractor builds garage, gets paid.
    -sub files lien, didn't get paid.
    -need to pay sub obviously, get lien removed.
    -need process explained of how to then go back to Shaw to get $$, since seems to want to dodge until everyone goes away.

    *long*
    We had a garage built over the summer by Shaw Renovation. All was great until a month after it was done when the concrete sub filed a builders lien because Shaw put a stop-payment on his cheque. Got a fun lesson in the Builders act, never heard of holding back 10% before that and shockingly the garage contract wasn't written with that in it..

    Anyway.. talked to Jon Shaw, the owner of Shaw Renovation in October, got told a story about him having to stop payment on multiple jobs of the sub because of issues with work he did at one of the jobs (not mine I advised him since I was there when he did it). and to give it a few weeks while they worked it out.

    Skip forward to the end of November and we get a letter from the sub advising he still hadn't been paid and he's having to take it to court. We email that to Shaw the first week of December and left a message, don't get a response.

    Email, fax and leave a message the third week of December advising we expect this guy to get paid by the end of the month, no response.

    Another message at the end of December and also talked to the sub to confirm he still hasn't been paid by Shaw.

    Finally get in touch with Jon last Friday but he said was with a customer and would call me right back. Because I'm a wimpy idiot apparently, I said okay.
    Obviously, no returned call.

    Call again that evening, left a voicemail and sent another email stating my displeasure at the lack of response and explanation.

    So following the trend, still nothing...

    Need to know what the next step is, obviously need to pay the sub so he gets his money for the work he did. I've got nothing against the sub, dude just wants his $$ and is following the steps he is supposed to.

    Do you pay the sub and then have to do a small claims thing again the main contractor? Does the sub complete his whole lien court thing to get the official confirmation of the lien, then you pay him, then use that decision to go back to the main contractor?

    Or are you just left to huddle in the corner? I can't imagine what would happen if they didn't pay any of their subs, 10% sure as hell wouldn't cover that...
    This must all be detailed somewhere on the internet, but all I can find is what the lien filer is supposed to do..

    The crazy part about this is he knew we had more work to get done, new roof, siding, a deck, a retaining wall.... hmmm... think this has soured me just a wee bit.
    2006 Edmonton Indy - Heatstroke
    2007 Vegas Grand Prix - Fremont awesomeness
    2010 Montreal Grand Prix - Section 11!
    2011 Edmonton Indy - Mudfest
    2012 Nascar Autoclub 400 - Convinced I attract rain....
    2016 Spa & Monza. Ya baby!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Parked in Baygirl's garage.
    My Ride
    '21 F150 PowerBoost
    Posts
    4,592
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    I am not sure here, but my best guess is as follows:

    You never hired the sub contractor, the general contractor did, and as such, have no responsibility to the sub contractor.

    I don't believe the lien on your property is a valid one since you never asked the sub to do the work, the contractor did, and as such, his (contractor's) bill, even if you never paid him. If there was a lien to be placed, the contractor should be doing it.

    I would consult a lawyer, but the way my logic is working, I would think that heading into court with your invoice and cashed cheque that was made payable to the contractor would be enough to have the subs lien removed, and the costs passed onto them.

    Basically the only part of the contract between the contractor and the sub that you are involved in, is that the work was done on your property.

    I could be totally out to lunch, and I would be happy to be proven wrong, but this is what my logic and thought process tells me.
    Boosted life tip #329
    Girlfriends cost money
    Turbos cost money
    Both make whining noises
    Make the smart choice.

    Originally posted by Mibz
    Always a fucking awful experience seeing spikers. Extra awful when he laps me.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Parked in Baygirl's garage.
    My Ride
    '21 F150 PowerBoost
    Posts
    4,592
    Rep Power
    29

    Default

    and just to clarify my thought process a little.

    I make tires, and I sell them to you for $25 per tire, and you in turn sell them to the public for $100 a tire.

    now you have store credit with me, and I let you run up a $1000 file. But then you disappear. I can't go after your customers for your bills, I have to go after you.
    Boosted life tip #329
    Girlfriends cost money
    Turbos cost money
    Both make whining noises
    Make the smart choice.

    Originally posted by Mibz
    Always a fucking awful experience seeing spikers. Extra awful when he laps me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    375
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    I'm not sure the answer but here is a thread from Calgary Puck detailing the same scenario. For a moment I thought you had asked the question over there as well until I saw the dates were from 2009.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Alberta
    My Ride
    '72 Volvo 1800E / '11 Escape
    Posts
    61
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    thanks for that link cet, I'd already read it, it basically gets to the point I'm at (need to pay the sub myself to get the lien off) and stops there. Doesn't go into how the homeowner then goes about getting that money back from the main contractor.

    spikers, it sucks but that is the process of the Builder lien act. While I'd agree its written to the sub-trades benefit, really those guys are the little people on the job and need to get paid.
    The whole thing seems to be one of those "well you should just know this" acts that every contractor purposely ignores in their contracts to make sure they get their money in full from the homeowner the second they are done.
    2006 Edmonton Indy - Heatstroke
    2007 Vegas Grand Prix - Fremont awesomeness
    2010 Montreal Grand Prix - Section 11!
    2011 Edmonton Indy - Mudfest
    2012 Nascar Autoclub 400 - Convinced I attract rain....
    2016 Spa & Monza. Ya baby!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    calgary ab
    My Ride
    99 Blazer
    Posts
    262
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    In my line of work the builder pays the framer, the framer pays us. If cheque bounces and framer takes off lien goes on the house. Usually the builder will pay it so they can sell, builder goes after framer. If your not selling let the courts deal with it. Otherwise you might have to pay first and go after the company.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    My Ride
    2015 Ram 1500
    Posts
    4,980
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    Originally posted by malbadon
    thanks for that link cet, I'd already read it, it basically gets to the point I'm at (need to pay the sub myself to get the lien off) and stops there. Doesn't go into how the homeowner then goes about getting that money back from the main contractor.
    DO NOT PAY THE SUB CONTRACTOR.

    You have no obligation to pay the sub contractor, Shaw has a contract with the Sub, not you. If you pay you're just going to be out more money, and you'll never get it out of Shaw. You can't get the guy on the phone now, you think you're going to get him on the phone when you just took care of his major PITA problem?
    Originally posted by HeavyD
    you know you are making the right decision if Toma opposes it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    1,991
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Originally posted by Go4Long


    DO NOT PAY THE SUB CONTRACTOR.

    You have no obligation to pay the sub contractor, Shaw has a contract with the Sub, not you. If you pay you're just going to be out more money, and you'll never get it out of Shaw. You can't get the guy on the phone now, you think you're going to get him on the phone when you just took care of his major PITA problem?


    Don't pay this yourself. You will never collect it from the contractor. Just go down to the Shaw office until someone talks to you.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    calgary
    My Ride
    The SHBARUS
    Posts
    2,091
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    http://www.ontarioconstructionlaw.ca...iens-FAQ.shtml

    You might be on the hook. For sure bigger job will have holdback to prevent this from happening. Not sure how this applies to small job though. How much are we talking about here? You may need to hire a pro to govern accordingly.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    My Ride
    2015 Ram 1500
    Posts
    4,980
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    The lien is valid. But he's not on the hook for it unless he gives this shaw douche bag a walk.
    Originally posted by HeavyD
    you know you are making the right decision if Toma opposes it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    calgary
    My Ride
    The SHBARUS
    Posts
    2,091
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    If you can track down this Shaw company and get them to sort it out themselves, then yeah, everyone is happy.

    What happens if Shaw just disappears, the lien is valid, the sub is still not getting paid and not likely will remove the lien? The owner is still stuck with it yes?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    403
    My Ride
    Bunch of Honda's
    Posts
    6,570
    Rep Power
    49

    Default Re: Advice? - Builders lien by sub for garage built by Shaw Renovation & Construction

    Originally posted by malbadon

    Anyway.. talked to Jon Shaw, the owner of Shaw Renovation in October, got told a story about him having to stop payment on multiple jobs of the sub because of issues with work he did at one of the jobs (not mine I advised him since I was there when he did it). and to give it a few weeks while they worked it out.
    So Shaw Renovations is holding back payment to a sub on your garage because of issue on other projects/garages? Or am I reading that wrong?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Drumheller, Alberta
    My Ride
    '93 CYM FD3S
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Re: Advice? - Builders lien by sub for garage built by Shaw Renovation & Constructio

    Originally posted by 88CRX


    So Shaw Renovations is holding back payment to a sub on your garage because of issue on other projects/garages? Or am I reading that wrong?
    That was the 'excuse', but not necessarily the real story.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 1987
    Location
    SK
    My Ride
    Fit Dugan Signature (2016)
    Posts
    3,375
    Rep Power
    100

    Default

    The Lien should definately be valid.

    Your best bet is to contact the sub and explain that you have paid the job in full to the contractor but that you will lean on him to try and settle this so the lien can be removed. As said, DO NOT pay the guy yourself obviously but in this situation it is better to attempt to make the sub an ally than an enemy as he is under no obligation to remove that lien from your propterty, whether you like it or not.

    As a contractor, I am usually required to sign a stat. dec. stating that all subs have been paid before final payments of funds are released to me. I understand on a small job it isn't the norm but it is a method of verification by the owner to avoid such situations occurring and, perhaps something for others to consider in the future.
    Last edited by JRSC00LUDE; 01-07-2013 at 06:50 PM.
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
    Originally posted by snowcat
    Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.
    Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
    I say stupid shit all the time.
    ^^ Fact Checked

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    My Ride
    90 DB1, 03 RL1, 07 YK1
    Posts
    2,609
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Kind of a dick move on both the sub and builder. The builder should have paid the invoice on your job, but backcharged the sub on the other job that he had the beef on. I believe legally the sub cant lien your job since it's "paid". He'd have to lien the other job.
    I could be mistaken, but that's how i understand it.

    Calgary is so much like an iphone: iCalgary - There's a bylaw for that.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    48
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Why not file a complaint to the Better Business Bureau? They seem to have a good rating, so it will likley be worth their while to fix this.

    Good luck!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Calgary AB
    My Ride
    Vmax
    Posts
    187
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    From what I understand the lien has to be renewed every year?

    Unless you are selling the house soon? The lien holder has to renew it every term for them to keep it on your property.

    I could be wrong this is second hand info from someone went through this.

    I was told that this BS tactic only works for the short term.....?


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    My Ride
    13 Scion FR-S, 11 Mitsu Outlander
    Posts
    1,517
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Jebus, I did not think that's how it worked - thanks for the insight even though it sucks for you... in future will get verification that subs were paid before paying. I usually pay for stuff same day/right away. Here's reason for delaying...
    That's not sweat. It's your fat, crying.


  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    calgary ab
    My Ride
    4x4
    Posts
    2,396
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Did that comment about due to another job happen to be via non verbal? (Ie text email etc)

    if so, you could get it removed... friend had this scenario, ended at queens benched with a copy of the email, and had it removed...

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,198
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by Sal0
    Why not file a complaint to the Better Business Bureau? They seem to have a good rating, so it will likley be worth their while to fix this.

    Good luck!

Page 1 of 3 1 2 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Cancelling builders construction Agreement

    By vkesava1 in forum Real Estate / Finance
    Replies: 19
    Latest Threads: 06-16-2015, 04:24 PM
  2. Help/Advice needed re: lien

    By bobby_lu in forum Society / Law / Current Events / Politics
    Replies: 7
    Latest Threads: 05-28-2007, 10:14 AM
  3. WTH: garage builders

    By 2fast4me in forum Miscellaneous Buy/Sell/Trade
    Replies: 4
    Latest Threads: 08-06-2005, 12:39 AM
  4. Garage Builders

    By sputnik in forum General
    Replies: 15
    Latest Threads: 09-16-2004, 02:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •