Security Camera's For Exterior of Home

[brandon]

Originally posted by Stealth22
Sorry for the bump...I thought it might be better than starting a brand new thread for this.

I was doing a bit of digging into cameras last year, and it's come off the back burner once again. Hopefully it doesn't get shelved this time around, but we'll see how it goes, lol.

I'm pretty much settled on the fact that I want to use 1080p IP cameras, each one wired to a PoE switch with a desktop/server running BlueIris. OR, alternatively, wired to a PoE enabled NVR. But regardless, if I'm going to do this, its going to be all network-based.

Here's my problem.

The house is wired with CAT5e to various rooms, but not the exterior. I can do all the camera research myself, I can get a friend to help physically install them (or pay someone to do it), and once all the wires are in, I can set the whole thing up myself.

What I can't do (go ahead and laugh at me if you want) is run the CAT5e/6 to various exterior locations.

Does anyone know who I can call to get an estimate on the wiring?

Thanks!

Realistically, the cat5 that is run for data in the rooms will have an entrance point coming from the floor rather than the ceiling. Which means you're still going to have to get in the addict and start splicing/connecting wire extensions anyways. It would be easier and far more reliable if you had someone run new lines from the basement.. There is plenty of people on kijiji you could find of you search cat5 installation.

As always with life.. You get what you pay for.

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by brandon
It would be easier and far more reliable if you had someone run new lines from the basement.

Oh, that's exactly what I plan on doing. Last year, the original vendor that wired the house didn't seem too keen on doing it, although I only talked to them over e-mail.

Looking at a couple other vendors at the moment. I don't plan on trusting a random off Kijiji though. If I do this, it's going to get done right, or not at all.

[Khyron]

Anyone up to date on the idea Hiki cameras currently? Some are saying the 2-3 mp are better than the newer 4s. Looking at one for the entrance/front door then a wider angle to capture the driveway/front yard. I have blue iris set up and POE switches but can't commit on the bloody cameras. :P

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by Khyron
Anyone up to date on the idea Hiki cameras currently? Some are saying the 2-3 mp are better than the newer 4s. Looking at one for the entrance/front door then a wider angle to capture the driveway/front yard. I have blue iris set up and POE switches but can't commit on the bloody cameras. :P

Link? Doing parallel research into cameras while I figure out my wiring problem.

[Khyron]

http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Pro...159_i5636.html
Turret 4MP - EXIR

http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Pro...159_i3668.html
Turret 3MP - EXIR

http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Pro...209_i4921.html
Mini Dome 3MP

Problem is there's so many freaking models. Ugh..

[codetrap]

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[Sean7]

Hikvision cameras seem to be to the best price/performance you can get.
The new 4mp cameras have some of the lowest Lux ratings (0.01Lux @ (F1.2, AGC ON)) I could find, which provides better night vision characteristics. Make sure you do some research on what focal length you need for your application, ex: 2.8mm, 4mm, 12mm
You can order them on aliexpress/alibaba or amazon.com for ~$160 USD and get them shipped here. They aren't as cheap as they used to be with the dollar the way it is though.

Hikvision makes some very nice PTZ cameras with auto tracking etc. but for most users, this is overkill and not needed. You will play with it for the fist week, then you won't touch it unless you're showing someone the system. They start at around $800 USD and go up to ~$2k USD each.

Just make sure you get them with English firmware as the Chinese firmware can't be updated and the Date/Menus will be in Chinese.

There are some Canadian dealers for these cameras (mostly home automation wholesalers) but the prices are quite inflated unless you know someone who has a wholesale account with them. Plus side is, you will get a genuine english firmware version with warranty in most cases.

As far as the NVR, Hikvision makes a decent one that comes with PoE for ~$300 USD. Ex: http://www.amazon.com/HIKVISION-DS-7...=hikvision+nvr

This will provide 8 channels of PoE with recording however, these aren't the fastest processors so I'm not sure on the limits of megapixels with these as well, you are limited to using Hikvision monitoring software and Hikvision cameras.

Most people setup a PC and run Blue Iris software to manage the cameras along with a PoE switch. This has more management options, can run almost any camera, is scalable in the future if need be and is cheap if you have an old PC laying around.
Keep in mind if you have 12MP (4x3mp cameras) of recording going all the time, with some of the analytic options running (line crossing etc.) then it can take a lot of CPU power and you need quite a good PC (Core i7+). Most people just set them to record on movement only and around 10-15fps to keep the processing requirements down.

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by codetrap
ipcamtalk forum. Lots and lots of advice there.

Originally posted by Sean7
[snip]

Thanks for the advice, guys, that helps!!

Got a guy coming out next week to survey the house for wiring, and waiting for replies from a couple others.

IF it turns out that the wiring isn't going to be possible for whatever reason, that limits my options pretty severely. In fact, it pretty much restricts me to wireless cameras only.

I was doing some reading on IPCamTalk, and the general consensus there seems to be that wireless cameras are complete pieces of crap, and should just be avoided completely, unless you want it just for looking at from time to time, not 24/7 recording. One of the users there also said that the Foscams are mostly junk, and to stick with Dahua or Hikvision (or Axis, if you're a real baller) whenever possible.

So I'm still going to run the CAT6 lines if I can, but if I can't, then is Powerline ethernet an option? Do those things even work outside?

And the other thing about the Hikvision cameras...how do you tell if the seller you're buying it from (particularly from Amazon) is giving you the 'real' North American version, or just a Chinese version with hacked firmware?

Aartech.ca seems to be a pretty reputable Canadian dealer for the Hikvision cameras, but like you said, Sean7, their prices are a tad inflated. I think a 3MP 1080p Hikvision from them was like $239 CAD.


EDIT: Are these Swann cameras from Costco any good?

http://www.costco.ca/Swann%E2%84%A2-...100148894.html

[The_Penguin]

Originally posted by Stealth22



EDIT: Are these Swann cameras from Costco any good?

http://www.costco.ca/Swann%E2%84%A2-...100148894.html

I think those are re-branded Hikvision 2032s, same as the Memory Express Trendnet for $179.
Great cameras, but can be had cheaper from China, or some U.S. sellers

I got 3 from Nelly's in the U.S. and the rest direct from China (Ali express) for around $80.00 U.S.

Re chinese with hacked firmware, I have a bunch. No problem with them at all, You just have to be careful flashing firmware on them I.E. don't do it. But have never seen any compelling reason to need to upgrade them anyway.

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by The_Penguin
I think those are re-branded Hikvision 2032s, same as the Memory Express Trendnet for $179.
Great cameras, but can be had cheaper from China, or some U.S. sellers

I got 3 from Nelly's in the U.S. and the rest direct from China (Ali express) for around $80.00 U.S.

Re chinese with hacked firmware, I have a bunch. No problem with them at all, You just have to be careful flashing firmware on them I.E. don't do it. But have never seen any compelling reason to need to upgrade them anyway.

That's what I figured...at least, they look like re-branded Hikvisions. The Costco ones are only 2MP though, which sucks. The thing I like about Costco is if anything goes wrong, they'll take the item back and give you a refund, no questions asked.

The Mem Ex one isn't a bad deal either, too bad they are out of stock.

I looked into Nelly's as well. The prices aren't too bad, and shipping is only $45 USD for 8 cameras. Even after the currency exchange and shipping, they're cheaper than Aartech.ca. And if you sign up at IPCamTalk, they offer a one-time 5% discount, which pretty much negates the shipping cost.

The only thing I'd be worried about is brokerage fees, because they ship by UPS. What was your experience with shipping from Nelly's?

Looks like the PoE cameras will be the easy part, lol. I just need to wait and see if I'll even be able to pull more CAT6 lines to the outside of my house.

[The_Penguin]

I have heard you can mess the firmware of the Swanns and increase the resolution, but I'd just go with Hiks.
Nelly's was very co-operative. I emailed (Sean Nelson is who I dealt with) and asked, and they shipped US Postal for $35.00 This was back in July 2013.

[Crazyjoker77]

Why all the hate for 2mp? That is 1920x1080 which I'm sure 90% of people are recording at. 3mp is 2048x1536 and generally the lower cameras have better night time/low light performance and less lag.

I picked up a LaView system on black friday from the states. It just rebranded Hikvision hardware with their own firmware. I wasn't initialy planning on using the DVR (rebranded hikvision 7608 w/8 poe)but after playing around with it I was sold that it was a good solution.

I've been extremely happy with it. I've got 6 3mp PoE bullet cams that I have set up to record 24/7 @1080. It can be viewed from any web browser, the phone app, or via HDMI out to a TV. I've got motion detection on just so it flags the timeline to make it easier to find events. I then have masks set about 1ft around windows and doors that will send me a email alert.

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by Crazyjoker77
Why all the hate for 2mp? That is 1920x1080 which I'm sure 90% of people are recording at. 3mp is 2048x1536 and generally the lower cameras have better night time/low light performance and less lag.

No hate...I just assumed the 3MP may have a better sensor to record with at 1080p, which may have been an incorrect assumption.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you know that the lower cams have better performance? I'm completely new to IP cams, lol, so I'm still learning.

And good to hear about Nelly's customer service. I'll probably end up buying Hikvision cams from them, if the wiring pans out. I may try the Swanns too, actually. I don't plan to record at higher than 1920x1080...like I said, I just (incorrectly?) assumed the sensor in the 3MP was better.

Here's another dumb question...what are the pros and cons of building/using a PC with BlueIris for recording VS buying a Hikvision NVR from Nelly's? It looks like they've got one for ~$300 USD, which is cheaper than a PC. (As I'm typing this, I remembered Sean7 posted about that...so I guess the answer is a PC would be faster, plus you're not tied to Hikvision cams or Hikvision software?)

[bobafixed]

I've just started my research on IP cameras and Hikvision has caught my attention.

The only thing I can't seem to find, are Hikvision cameras with builtin microphones. Does anyone have any experience with POE cameras with builtin mics?

[The_Penguin]

Originally posted by Stealth22

No hate...I just assumed the 3MP may have a better sensor to record with at 1080p, which may have been an incorrect assumption.


Here's another dumb question...what are the pros and cons of building/using a PC with BlueIris for recording VS buying a Hikvision NVR from Nelly's? It looks like they've got one for ~$300 USD, which is cheaper than a PC. (As I'm typing this, I remembered Sean7 posted about that...so I guess the answer is a PC would be faster, plus you're not tied to Hikvision cams or Hikvision software?)

I love BlueIris. I have it running on my main i7 desktop which also does Sickbeard, Plex, and a few other tasks. I don't notice any probem running motion detection on 7 cameras at 720p 10fps. Even while editing photos in Lightroom/Photoshop
Occasionally I'll stop BlueIris if I need to recode a video or something.

I find 720p adequate for most needs. and 10fps seems like a decent tradeoff for performance.

It's also very flexible for configuration, different cameras, different settings, several profiles that can be scheduled. Motion detection zones, alerts, emails etc. I have no experience with the PVRs, but I bet they're not nearly as configurable.
Plus BlueIris supports a Metric shitload of camera models, up to 64 on one license if you have the horsepower.
I have a bunch of Hik 2032s, a few of the surprisingly good $25.00 Top-201s and even a Microsoft USB lifecam in the Den to spy on the dogs when we're out.

The plus side of a PVR, it's plug and play, set and forget, and I think they do POE as well.

[codetrap]

.

[The_Penguin]

Originally posted by Khyron
[

Problem is there's so many freaking models. Ugh..

I think the Turrets have an advantage over the bullets for night IR in that the light source is more offset from the lens so you don't get as many false motion events from bugs/dust particles reflecting right back into the lens.

I've heard that the domes can have some IR fogging, though some say it's not a big issue.

I don't think megapixels really matter, as 1080p should be the upper limit for motion detection/recording before you really start using CPU power and disk space. I believe the reason some people say lower megapixels are better, is the image is a bit cleaner, less noise, but again as long as you're capturing enough detail, it's not a photo contest

[soupey]

LaView is garbage, the main DVR units for them crap out over time, or start having time sync problems.

https://www.amazon.ca/Security-Inclu...ecurity+camera

i picked this up off amazon for a cheaper PoE option that has really good image quality. set it up in my business. if you really want a live feed with it thats handheld u might be better off getting a tablet and connecting to the video system as needed. otherwise it has HDMI/VGA outputs for a monitor that you'd have to wire up. outside of that you'd just need a large hard drive to keep the footage stored.

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by bobafixed
I've just started my research on IP cameras and Hikvision has caught my attention.

The only thing I can't seem to find, are Hikvision cameras with builtin microphones. Does anyone have any experience with POE cameras with builtin mics?

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a decent camera with a mic in this price point...I could be wrong though. I thought I remember reading that some Hikvision cams have a sound input for an external mic, but I'm not sure. May have been something else.

Originally posted by The_Penguin
The plus side of a PVR, it's plug and play, set and forget, and I think they do POE as well.

Yeah, some do, some don't. But I like the flexibility of BlueIris, plus you're not bound to only one brand of camera.

Building a new PC is going to be near $1000 though...I'll probably re-purpose my old one, or see if I can find a refurb model cheap somewhere.

Originally posted by codetrap
As for the wireless, you still have to get power to them. PoE is just another way to do it with a hardwired network connection. I would have gone PoE personally but I didn't want to have to drop more cash for some injectors or a PoE switch. I may one day, but not today.

The camera's I have are rebranded hikvision for sure, the interface is identical.

Ok, good to know. If buying Hikvision cams from the States is going to be a sizeable difference in price, I might try a set of the Costco ones first. And yeah, wireless cams still need power, hence my preference to just feed one single CAT6 that can do both power and data.

Too bad Costco doesn't sell re-branded Hikvision dome cams. I like those cause they're vandal proof...or at least, more vandal resistant than a bullet cam. A bullet cam can be easily swivelled around with a stick. The dome cameras are a little more discreet (although not by much), and you can't turn them.

[Sean7]

Originally posted by bobafixed
I've just started my research on IP cameras and Hikvision has caught my attention.

The only thing I can't seem to find, are Hikvision cameras with builtin microphones. Does anyone have any experience with POE cameras with builtin mics?

The Hikvision domes and mini-domes are available with a sound option (S) option at the end of the model number. These include an audio input/output and an alarm trigger IO I believe but for the domes you will have to wire in a microphone.

As far as I know the only ones that come with a built in microphone are the mini domes 2CD25x2 series but I can't confirm this until mine come in.

On a side note, it looks like Blue Iris supports hardware decoding on Intel CPUs with Quick Sync. So just look for a CPU with Quick Sync and it should bring down your CPU usage. There is talk that the developer is working on Nvidia hardware support, if that happens you won't need much of a CPU at all, just a video card so we will see.