Power Engineer (trade) VS P.Eng - Your Thoughts Please!

[teioh]

I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. Here are the pros/cons I see for each one that I feel pertain to the average person in their profession.

PLEASE feel free to critique and hopefully point out where I am completely wrong

mid 20s white male

Power Engineer via NAIT:

Pros:
* Can be working two years from today
* Get half of the year off
* Excellent money to start off with and can go on to making more money than a lot of P. Engs will make
* Fairly easy course
* For the most part only determined individuals get to class 1 so there could be some job security and contracting options

Cons:
* Shift work
* In Ft. Mac for a week or more at a time which can lead to a difficult family life
* Camp life
* Can be both physically labor intensive, and downright boring at various times
* Work satisfaction levels probably aren't the highest
* High wage positions susceptible to economic downturns

Unsure about:
* How much burn out, is this an actual career or something you do 10 years and get out?
* With a certain class ticket, are there opportunities to make good money near Edmonton or Calgary working M-F days
* Are you in coveralls your entire career?
* Are you pretty much stuck in Alberta?


Engineer (non-oil and gas)

Pros:
* M-F 8 hours a day for the most part
* Interesting work so there can be high job satisfaction
* Not physically intensive
* Not as susceptible to a fickle economy as Power Engineer or Petro Engineer

Cons:
* Won't be working for 5 years
* Fairly low starting salary and will take better part of two decades or more to equal power engineer salary (power engineer can easily be retired by this point)
* Do I even have the ability to pass the university level courses (~88% average in HS math/science courses, but those were a long time ago)

Petroleum Engineer

Pros:
* Can make absurdly higher salaries than a power engineer later on in the career
* Can see the world if I chose (albeit not touristy parts)
* Has the option lead to an office job with good work/life balance (albeit at a hit to your salary)
* Not physically intensive

Cons:
* Again working in 5 years
* Concerns about being competitive enough to get into Petro Engineering let alone can I even pass the first year of general engineering
* To make the big money will require rotations that may devastate your family life
* Again less money to start off than a power engineer and probably 5 - 6 years after grad (11 years from now) to start catching up
* Even more susceptible to economic downturns than power engineer
* Abroad camp life can easily be significantly worse than Ft. Mac camp life
* Have even heard it's difficult for Petro Engineer grads to find jobs today

[Cos]

.

[teioh]

I understand completely that power engineer is a trade/plant operator and has nothing in common with real engineering.

Thanks for the response and for other types of engineering i'm honestly not sure because it's hard to not make it all about the money when you are looking at graduating in your 30s.

I feel like these various career choices come down to pick 2 out of 3

money
work/life balance
family life

[woodywoodford]

If you want to stay in oil, nobody's got it better than someone with their p.eng. I'm learning this now, the hard way, as all the finance jobs I want are preferring engineers. Pisses me off to be honest.

So get the eng. degree. You'll have exponentially more options with it.

[zachattack54]

I took power engineering at SAIT and it was one of the best choices I have made.

Here are some random points/answers to your questions:

-Schooling isn't that bad if you keep on top of it
-2 years of school to get your third class and your marketable across all of Canada
-Great money right out of school
-You don't have to go to Fort mac, although the money is better
-Work load varies depending on what kind of plant you are at, but your right it can be boring at times
-There are opportunities to work out of Calgary and Edmonton, Joffre is a great place to work as well if you don't mind living in Red Deer.
-Its almost a guarantee that you will be on shift for a large portion of your career which is a good and bad thing. I currently get 1 week-2 weeks off straight every 5 weeks. Thats not including other other days off during my 5 week shift cycle.
-There is a very high demand for steam ticketed operators in Alberta and shows no real signs of slowing down
-Unless you get a day position in the plant you'll be wearing coveralls
-There is room for advancement if you work towards your 2nd and even 1st class steam ticket. That is usually the best way to get out of shift work.


Hope that answers some questions, sorry to ramble on.

Zach

[Darkane]

Originally posted by teioh
I understand completely that power engineer is a trade/plant operator and has nothing in common with real engineering.

Wrong.

Who told you this? A competent and trained Power Engineer should and DOES hold their own with the Professional Engineers.

This field of work isn't only sleeping on nights and taking readings during the day.

As you progress ultimately with your Second class ticket you'll take on supervisory roles that can lead to anything.

Some examples: Plant HAZOP, New construction Consult, Operation coordinators, training etc.

Lots of Opportunity.

Best decision of My life to become a lowly Operator

[Darkane]

Originally posted by teioh


Unsure about:
* How much burn out, is this an actual career or something you do 10 years and get out?
* With a certain class ticket, are there opportunities to make good money near Edmonton or Calgary working M-F days
* Are you in coveralls your entire career?
* Are you pretty much stuck in Alberta?

See If I can answer some of these:

1) Lots of people make it a career. This is up to the individual, your personality and ultimately your partner in the future.

2) Yes, but usually only when the company you work for has opportunity in the offices. That could also be 10-15 years down the road.

3) Coveralls yes. But you might be straight day shift by then which is good.

4) Nope. A Friend of mine just got hired on at a Steel plant around Trail BC. He started at 39/hr. Big money for BC.

Your ticket is Inter-provincial, and for some companies International.

Another friend I worked with had an Opportunity with Shell in Texas for 90k USD base salary at a Refinery with his Second Class.

[ExtraSlow]

Power Engineering and steam tickets are in huge demand. Great career choices.

As always, your drive and work ethic will determine your future, but those are great building blocks.

[sxtasy]

Originally posted by Darkane


Wrong.

Who told you this? A competent and trained Power Engineer should and DOES hold their own with the Professional Engineers.

I don't get this comparison. Isn't it like comparing apples to oranges? I would imagine the schooling involved for an Engineering designation would be much more difficult and competitive than for Power Engineering.

If you are looking at it from a money perspective I would guess that Power Engineering would provide about the same wages (oil industry) as an engineering designation, so great $$ for the time spent in school.

Lots of time off, but can you handle shift work, and 12 hr shifts? Can you see yourself working in a plant for the rest of your life? Afaik you could get a job in a hospital, zoo, other industrial more local settings but the money isn't nearly as good.

Instrumentation might also be something to look at.

And FYI you will have a tough time getting into Power Engineering schooling for this September as it is a very popular program. (Maybe try Keyano or Portage college as well). Lots of good reading and info on the outdoorsman forum for power engineering.

[HiTempguy1]

In my.opinion, the number one thing to consider is shift work/nights.

If that doesnt bother you, go nuts. While a power engineer MAY get into an office position, it is rare. And 99% of power engineers will never have the theoretical knowledge that a peng does, whether you work hard and for the same company.

A degree opens different doors. The jobs are more different than they are similiar.

[Unknown303]

Working shift and nights is the best. Plus with shift work I'm only in the office 160 days off the year. Yup I'm on days off 205 days a year. Although we're normally short staffed so I spend maybe an extra 10 to 15 days a year in on OT.

[dubhead]

I believe NAITs Chemical Engineering Technology program gives you a steam ticket as well as the opportunity to bridge to University if you decide to go that route. Kind of the best of both worlds.

Like has been said operators with steam tickets are in retarded demand a few examples I've heard from industry:

-Esso looking to hire 60 operators this year(info session)
-Suncor lost 30 - 40 operators to another company because they offered them more money (Suncor attendee at a student industry night)

[Skidro]

Well I am semi-relevant to this discussion as I am taking my Water Treatment Operator certificate at SAIT and also going to complete my power engineering 4th class... The students that have gotten a co-op position are making around $30-33 an hour plus bonuses and it is a fly-in fly-out shift work

So the money is definitely there and with new ERCB regulations and advancements with technology, I am positive there is no shortage on trades/operators in at least the next 10 years.

SAGD facilities are just beginning to really expand and should last for about 75 years. Steam tickets 4/3 are great operator positions but once you get your 2nd or 1st it is really mostly plant management and big stress with not much sleep...

[Darkane]

Originally posted by sxtasy
I don't get this comparison. Isn't it like comparing apples to oranges? I would imagine the schooling involved for an Engineering designation would be much more difficult and competitive than for Power Engineering.

Not True. 2nd Class Power Eng material is around 2-3 year engineering. We just don't go into extreme details because we venture into all the disciplines (mech, electrical, chemical, instrument, petroleum etc)

Once a competent Power Engineer has this information INCLUDING field work, they might even be ahead of the P.Eng.

Theory is Theory right? We have to know it

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Darkane


Not True. 2nd Class Power Eng material is around 2-3 year engineering. We just don't go into extreme details because we venture into all the disciplines (mech, electrical, chemical, instrument, petroleum etc)

Once a competent Power Engineer has this information INCLUDING field work, they might even be ahead of the P.Eng.

Theory is Theory right? We have to know it

Sorry but.... no. Just no. Thats like saying a technology diploma is like the firsttwo years of an engineering degree, it isnt. You keep telling yourself this if it somehow makes you feel more justified in your career choice,but that doesn't change the fact that they are wildly different.

As I've posted elsewhere before, for your typical person, engineering is a program of frustration and stress. The power engineering education is a walk in the park (hell, you only need physics 20 to get into it).

[Unknown303]

Aren't all "real" engineers dicks anyways, might as well be a Power Engineer and still have your friends and family like you afterwards.

[Penis McNickels]

Originally posted by Unknown303
Aren't all "real" engineers dicks anyways,

I can confirm this as true. I am an engineer.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Penis McNickels


I can confirm this as true. I am an engineer.

I KNEW IT!!

[Darkane]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Sorry but.... no. Just no. Thats like saying a technology diploma is like the firsttwo years of an engineering degree, it isnt. You keep telling yourself this if it somehow makes you feel more justified in your career choice,but that doesn't change the fact that they are wildly different.

As I've posted elsewhere before, for your typical person, engineering is a program of frustration and stress. The power engineering education is a walk in the park (hell, you only need physics 20 to get into it).

No rebuttal. But check entry requirements for PET at SAIT.

[zieg]

Originally posted by teioh


Power Engineer via NAIT:

I feel like I should point out, the correct term would be Power Engineering Technologist. If you come out of a 2-year diploma program, you're a technologist, not an engineer.

Though I do know MANY technologists who don't seem to care and call themselves engineers.

(I'm not being elitist either.. I'm also not an engineer.)