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Thread: Delay in Bass for Subwoofer

  1. #1
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    Default Delay in Bass for Subwoofer

    I finally installed the Audiocontrol LC2i, wicked CAS seal enclosure, JL 600 XD/1 and 10W7AE.

    I tapped the subwoofer and front mid woofer for the sound.

    Some of the Bass are perfectly time, but I noticed on the certain frequencies of the bass are delayed by about 0.2 second. Any clue?

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    This is common. There are decks that have time alignment capabilities which will sync all your speakers and subs with each so the sound reaches your ear all at the correct time, they take into account distance from speaker to where you are sitting as well as speed certain frequencies travel.

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    This is from a 2012 Lexus IS-F, the original subwoofer is still there + JL subwoofer. The headunit of does not have anything that will let me adjust the delay of any frequenices.

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    Originally posted by jadeboy
    This is from a 2012 Lexus IS-F, the original subwoofer is still there + JL subwoofer. The headunit of does not have anything that will let me adjust the delay of any frequenices.
    So the original sub is running off the factory amp, and you have a second amp to run the second sub?

    edit: can you post a basic diagram of what you have done for wiring?

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    Originally posted by GTS4tw


    So the original sub is running off the factory amp, and you have a second amp to run the second sub?

    edit: can you post a basic diagram of what you have done for wiring?
    Yes.

    Factory amp running factory sub.
    LOC (AudioControl LC2i) tapping factory amp for sound.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Take your factory sub out. You're most likely having frequency cancellation issues as well.

    I recommend getting an Audison bit ten or bit one to properly time align and manage your setup.
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    thats all overkill

    Just change where you are tied in, tie your signal into the factory sub and not the front speakers, almost all manufactures of OEM amplified stereos HEAVILY EQ and time align. you are more than likely not even getting all of the low frequencies you want.

    i may look at upping the power to that sub as well, it will perform with the xd600 but you would be way further ahead with the 600/1 or hd750 the xd is a little small for the w7's

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    I removed the front speakers from the signal.. No different..

    The XD600/1 was what JL recommends for the 10W7, if I could move to a 12W7 I would have used the HD750.

    Going to try to disconnect stock sub.

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    Overkill? Doing stuff properly is considered overkill, really? And taking it off the front speakers is a terrible idea. Some newer premium systems are going to have a high pass filter on the front components. You're also not going to notice 150w rms more on this sub, to make any substantial difference he'll need to get something that's 1200w+.

    Of course it's no different. The way you're doing it is almost a hack and a downgrade from the factory system. The only way you're going to be able to add delay to the whole system is by doing what I suggested. There are significant other advantages as well, you'll be able to make the car sound wicked with one of those bit processing units.

    If you want to try and make it work with what you have, this is the best you can do:
    -use signal from amp to factory sub
    -take out factory sub
    -make sure sub is in phase
    -use a properly tuned enclosure
    -make sure your LC2i gains are set properly (these are notorious for being noisy as well)


    If your still not happy, get a bitOne, and tune the system properly.
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    you sure as hell dont need a bitone just to add a sub. its WAY too much for a simple add on sub system. the front speakers are probally crossed over at 60-80 hz right where you would want the sub to start playing. by using the sub as your input you will be getting the lows to the sub that you want,


    Try changing the phase of your sub 180 deg(flip the pos and neg speaker wires)
    make sure that your inputs are in phase.
    unplug the factory sub.


    There is a chance that your car uses factory noise canceling as well that will cause you HUGE headaches trying to add subs.



    oh
    and i can guarantee that you would hear a difference in that sub with the other 2 amps i mentioned. Watts are Watts but what the amp does with them and how the amp controls the speakers is something completely different.

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    Using the front+subwoofer is recommended on the Lexus forum.

    I have tried almost everything I can think of including reversing +/- wiring going to the sub.

    I have not remove the factory sub.. may try it tomorrow.

    It might be the LOC.. I am getting a cheap scosche loc 4 channel to see..

    I am also considering getting a BitTen (BitOne seems overkill).

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    Originally posted by 95acc
    There is a chance that your car uses factory noise canceling as well that will cause you HUGE headaches trying to add subs.
    This is most likely the case here. That or some sort of weird signal processing that will screw you up.

    Are you sure there isn't an aftermarket accessory that will add on a line leve out? Most newish factory HU come with the ability to output video and audio for rear entertainment.

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    Originally posted by 95acc
    you sure as hell dont need a bitone just to add a sub. its WAY too much for a simple add on sub system. the front speakers are probally crossed over at 60-80 hz right where you would want the sub to start playing. by using the sub as your input you will be getting the lows to the sub that you want,


    Try changing the phase of your sub 180 deg(flip the pos and neg speaker wires)
    make sure that your inputs are in phase.
    unplug the factory sub.


    There is a chance that your car uses factory noise canceling as well that will cause you HUGE headaches trying to add subs.



    oh
    and i can guarantee that you would hear a difference in that sub with the other 2 amps i mentioned. Watts are Watts but what the amp does with them and how the amp controls the speakers is something completely different.
    No you don't need a bitone just to add a sub, but he's obviously not getting a good result, how else are you going to add delay to everything to align the sub? I suggested the bit ten because it's cheap, and you can get amazing results. You can even RTA the car with pink noise and reduce all of your frequency spikes (which every car will have).

    Only thing that would make a difference in the amps is slew rate / dampening factor, but coupled to a sloppy monotone w7, in his application it won't make a difference.

    In conclusion. Stop fucking around, get a processing unit and RTA the car, and you'll have wicked sound that's an actual upgrade over OEM.
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    Could it be my Wicked CAS enclosure?

    Approx .90 Cu ft.
    Mounting depth 8"

    http://www.wickedcas.com/product.php...7&cat=6&page=1


    JL recommends

    10w7 - seal: 1.25 cubic feet.

    I don't know how the BitTen would correct the delay? Since only the JL subwoofer is connected to the LOC (the factory speakers/sub are still connected to factory amp). How would it reduces the delay to the JL subwoofer?

    If the BitTen is connected to all the factory speakers/sub and JL sub I can see it working.

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    The BitTen would have to be wired to all factory speakers and sub, it will also eliminate the crappy LOC.
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    Originally posted by jadeboy
    Could it be my Wicked CAS enclosure?

    Approx .90 Cu ft.
    Mounting depth 8"

    http://www.wickedcas.com/product.php...t=6&page=1


    JL recommends

    10w7 - seal: 1.25 cubic feet.

    I don't know how the BitTen would correct the delay? Since only the JL subwoofer is connected to the LOC (the factory speakers/sub are still connected to factory amp). How would it reduces the delay to the JL subwoofer?

    If the BitTen is connected to all the factory speakers/sub and JL sub I can see it working.
    You do realize that your box is 25% too small eh

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    Originally posted by spike98


    You do realize that your box is 25% too small eh
    Yeah.. should not make cause the delay.. I put in some poly fiber (solution for smaller enclosure) into the enclosure.

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    Originally posted by jadeboy


    Yeah.. should not make cause the delay.. I put in some poly fiber (solution for smaller enclosure) into the enclosure.
    I dont know about that. A small box could cause all sorts of frequency response issues and could simulate a muddy delayed response from the woofer. Poly fill isn't a "solution" for an enclosure that is too small. Especially with a huge woofer in a small enclosure. It could even be less than that. Borrow a box from a buddy that is properly spec'd before you go all out on OEM->aftermarket equipment.

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    I got in contact with the enclosure manufacturer. They have released the enclosure with the JL 10W7, they told me to not only disconnect the stock Subwoofer but to REMOVE it from the car.

    Unfortunately, I don't have access to a spec enclosure for the 10W7.

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    You mean you didn't disconnect the factory sub? If thats the case then its phase/cancellation issues for sure. But if you did then now that i am thinking about it even more, im willing to bet the farm that its the enclosure. If that enclosure is ~.9cuft and the displacement volume of the sub is .09cuft that leaves about 0.8cuft of air space. Which is 36% to small for the sub.

    Additionally if it has a max depth of 8" and the subs mounting depth is 8" then the vent at the bottom of the magnet is or close to being blocked by the back of the enclosure. This would restrict the movement of the cone if it is plugged or restricted.

    In short, get a new enclosure before anything. If you are dead set on that one, then a new sub with a shallow mount and less required volume would be the way to go.

    Go to home depot and get them to cut the pieces for you to build a spec box then test it out. Should cost less than $30 for materials and should only take you a few hours tops to hammer one out. It doesn't need to be pretty, just air tight. If you built the box right and it still sounds muddy and delayed, ill paypal you the cost for the wood.
    Last edited by spike98; 04-24-2013 at 03:43 PM.

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