Airways Brake and Muffler Damaged My Car's Front Lip

[TrU-PaK]

Originally posted by gretz


And please, post a front end shot of the car, as many have asked > the damage he caused and the hardships that have followed must be pretty easily justified by how disfigured your car must be

really curious to see how bad the damage actually is.
PICS!

[gretz]

Originally posted by tom_9109
I wouldn't accept letting someone fix it at the place of their choice. They choose it because its a hack shop.

Or because they can get it done for a reasonable cost, time, and the outcome would likely be in-line with other shops, it's not a hard repair... not like blending a custom flaked paint on a bodyline without repainting the panel lol...

Can anyone on here honestly say, from just a picture, no back story, that this repair is justifiably over $1000 to fix? Would you pay OP $1000+ if they claimed you had made this damage (weather you did it or not)?

[Disoblige]

gretz, what are you talking about man? lol

Didn't OP just want $472??

[tom_9109]

Originally posted by gretz


Or because they can get it done for a reasonable cost, time, and the outcome would likely be in-line with other shops, it's not a hard repair... not like blending a custom flaked paint on a bodyline without repainting the panel lol...

Can anyone on here honestly say, from just a picture, no back story, that this repair is justifiably over $1000 to fix? Would you pay OP $1000+ if they claimed you had made this damage (weather you did it or not)?

Well since I do know what it takes to perform a proper repair and in order to lower the cost they would cut corners such as not removing the bumper for refinish or using lower quality refinish products I would definitely be ok paying the actual cost to repair to industry standards.

Reputable shops tend to be diplomatic, step up to the plate and accept their liability. A reputable shop should first either agree they are liable or not and then decide as to if the amount to repair is reasonable. Too many business will only agree its their fault if its cheap to fix and this is the wrong logic.

Had this been my business I would have accepted that based on the video my business has damaged your vehicle and I will gladly take care of the actual cost to repair. I would suggest shops that I trust but ultimately would be up to the customer. If they wanted to go to ABC Autobody I would be alright with that provided the repair cost was appropriate to the damages sustained. (IE if the panel can be repaired in 3 hours of body time @ $75 I wouldn't agree with a replacement for $600). its all about indemnifying the owner for the loss. In fact this is exactly what the insurance company involved intends to do and insurance companies are the boss at controlling costs and keeping them to a minimum.

I have dealt with numerous business owners in my industry and even when its questionable they damaged someones vehicle they tend to err on the side of caution and say "Looking at the damage I don't believe we caused it however as I value you as a customer I will gladly take care of that for you".

I know one body shop owner who spends about $5,000 retail or more every month taking care of complaints that aren't actually caused by his shop such as numerous door dings or long rusty scrapes.

Its just bad business to be a cheap cunt and not accept liability on things you did because its more money than you want to spend.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Disoblige
gretz, what are you talking about man? lol

Didn't OP just want $472??

I have discounted Gretz's opinion, while it was valid at first, he is blowing things out of proportion and misrepresenting facts / or exaggerating them to the point of ridiculousness.

Long story short, regardless of any other damage the car may or may not have, ABM damaged the car. When the OP got quotes to have it fixed, ABM offered $50, and that is pretty low, and what caused things to escalate.

While to some, this may seem petty, to others, this may be a big deal. I know if someone damaged my vehicle while in their care, I would expect them to right their wrong, not pussy foot around.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by spikers
... I would expect them to right their wrong, not pussy foot around.

Yeah, pussyfooting and lolligagging, both things I really hate.

[SportEL]

Pics of the damage are on the first page of this thread, or go to www.airwaysbrakeandmuffler.com for more pics of the damage.

The quote from Screamin' and insurance include the cost of a rental vehicle.

The owner wanted to bring my lip to 'his' shop because he wanted to trade services with the other shops he had in mind. I, of course wanted to bring it to a shop I'm familiar with and trust. He said he is not rich like T&T Honda is to pay for cost of damage and rental, and that my car is not a new car.

Rehashing this, but he agreed to take the lip off for me and bring it to 'his' shop. I thought about it called him back the next day and offered to save him money and time by taking off the cost of the rental vehicle, while I remove and re-install the part myself, bring part around to the bodyshop and 3M place. He thought it was still too much, and eventually that is where he offered $250, then $300.

Now he we are, after all this. He offers $450 and that he denies any fault, though the video evidence shows otherwise, audio recording admitting fault, did not mention they did something in the first place, lied about having trouble bringing my car up before I mentioned I had video, and offers no apology of any sort but denial.

[FraserB]

Sport: I would just do what was posted above. Take the $450 and leave the site up, that amount just about covers the cost for the painting and 3M.

He obviously doesn't think the site is going to cost him business, so there is no issue with leaving it there.

[SportEL]

He wants the domain in return for the $450 as per latest conversation.

[gretz]

Originally posted by Disoblige
gretz, what are you talking about man? lol

Didn't OP just want $472??

"You guys can give me a certified cheque/bank draft for $741 for the damage caused and I will update the website, the forum, reviews, videos everywhere that the issue has been settled and we can write an agreement that I won't sue you, you won't sue me."

My bad.. he was at $750 plus rental, I didn't know the rental was included > which is where $1000 comes from.

What facts have I misrepresented / exaggerated?

[5fivespeed]

SportEL how low is your car anyways? You keep avoiding on showing us the car. I still think 700$ in a lip repair is way too much considering that I've been where you are but the R&R, paint and repair or my front lip and bumper wasn't even close to your quote. That's even with my choice to tint my foglights too.

He'll even now, my rear bumper is getting replaced. Brand new OEM parts from Toyota and I'm looking at $416 painted and installed. Maybe you should work with the owner considering that arrogance (yes, on his part too) doesn't go anywhere. I mean "taking him to the cleaners" and demanding a cheque for 749$ is a bit absurd. Sometimes anger works. Sometimes it doesn't, and when that doesn't understanding comes in and mutual agreements. I see why the owner doesn't have time for this because he's offered viable options. That's a front lip for a EL, and I don't mean that as being mean but it is what it is. EL Domani front ends cost 1000$ish. I know you have your quotes for this much by whoever but the owner tried to work with you.

There's always one side of the story how you approached this and his and judging by how you do talk to people you definitely didn't come off as "calm" when you found that "extreme damage". The owner probably wanted to take it to his friends shop as that's what is feasible for him and that's what adheres to his schedule. Plus, if I did this and a friend of mine owned a shop I would do it too. Wouldn't you save money?

Pictures of car too. I've scraped diamond plate with my truck lip and its minor. I've bottomed out on speedbumps in a slammed AE86 and that damage looks more like yours.

Just curious for those of you who know, because I don't. Can you sue for damage to your vehicle like that... The car is lowered so it isn't stock. Does insurance companies cover this liability since your car is modified. Just wondering.

[jaylo]

$750 + rental is a lot of money for a civic lip. Hell, I paid 625 for a brand new Honda painted OEM S2000 lip and 180 to 3M it

When this is all settled, I bet there would be a new thread "Autobody Shop Damaged My Paint With Overspray" or "3M Shop Damaged My New Painted Lip With 3M cutting Tool"

Don't mean to ridicule but this is a lot of time and effort spent on a scratched civic lip which sits at the bottom of the car and will get scratched/damaged eventually by act of God.

[Disoblige]

Pics have already been posted of the damage. Why do you guys keep asking him to post pics of his car?

Also, there is nothing wrong with how SportEL spoke with the owner IMO. The owner gets all defensive and makes SO MANY excuses it's ridiculous.

The video(s) says so much guys.

To be honest, if it was me, I'd solely make life difficult for the owner just because of how much of a dick he is. He says he ran his business for over 30 years, took in ton of cars lower than his, and treats OPs car as if it's his own, yet he's newb enough to not hear the scrape on both ends of the lip? Even if he didn't, the video evidence is easily there.

SportEL, to prove this, why don't you run your car up the ramp again and stop it where it scrapes just so show this assclown of an owner he caused the damage?

Originally posted by jaylo
$750 + rental is a lot of money for a civic lip.

Dude, this thread is getting filled with so much misinformation now. It was never $750 + rental at all, read the thread and watch the videos.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by 5fivespeed
The owner probably wanted to take it to his friends shop as that's what is feasible for him and that's what adheres to his schedule. Plus, if I did this and a friend of mine owned a shop I would do it too. Wouldn't you save money?

Pictures of car too. I've scraped diamond plate with my truck lip and its minor. I've bottomed out on speedbumps in a slammed AE86 and that damage looks more like yours.

Just curious for those of you who know, because I don't. Can you sue for damage to your vehicle like that... The car is lowered so it isn't stock. Does insurance companies cover this liability since your car is modified. Just wondering.

The owner is more than welcome to offer his suggestion as to where the car gets repaired. He has no right to dictate where it eventually gets fixed and certainly no recourse for "affecting his schedule". Either way, it is the shop's responsibility to make the OP whole.

The shop accepted the liability for the vehicle when they agreed to do the work, pretty darn obvious that OP's car is lowered and could scrape things.

At this point it is probably best for OP to go through his insurance and let his company go after the shop.

I doubt anyone in this thread would just let damage caused by a shop go. They might not go on a crusade to see the shop destroyed, but they certainly wouldn't just pass off hundreds in damage.

[sidewaysD]

Originally posted by 5fivespeed
SportEL how low is your car anyways? You keep avoiding on showing us the car. I still think 700$ in a lip repair is way too much considering that I've been where you are but the R&R, paint and repair or my front lip and bumper wasn't even close to your quote. That's even with my choice to tint my foglights too.

He'll even now, my rear bumper is getting replaced. Brand new OEM parts from Toyota and I'm looking at $416 painted and installed. Maybe you should work with the owner considering that arrogance (yes, on his part too) doesn't go anywhere. I mean "taking him to the cleaners" and demanding a cheque for 749$ is a bit absurd. Sometimes anger works. Sometimes it doesn't, and when that doesn't understanding comes in and mutual agreements. I see why the owner doesn't have time for this because he's offered viable options. That's a front lip for a EL, and I don't mean that as being mean but it is what it is. EL Domani front ends cost 1000$ish. I know you have your quotes for this much by whoever but the owner tried to work with you.

There's always one side of the story how you approached this and his and judging by how you do talk to people you definitely didn't come off as "calm" when you found that "extreme damage". The owner probably wanted to take it to his friends shop as that's what is feasible for him and that's what adheres to his schedule. Plus, if I did this and a friend of mine owned a shop I would do it too. Wouldn't you save money?

Pictures of car too. I've scraped diamond plate with my truck lip and its minor. I've bottomed out on speedbumps in a slammed AE86 and that damage looks more like yours.

Just curious for those of you who know, because I don't. Can you sue for damage to your vehicle like that... The car is lowered so it isn't stock. Does insurance companies cover this liability since your car is modified. Just wondering.

Any damadge done by a shop....

As a shop owner you are liable for any damadge you or your employee causes to another persons car.

If the car is low.. The owner has the right To refuse business.

He should of just done that..

[SportEL]

I already talked about this. It's not a Civic lip. Civic lips don't fit right on ELs. I had to get my Past and present Civic lips extended on both ends to fit on my car. The lip that got damaged is an extremely rare OEM Honda Domani lip to get facts straight. I have not seen one in the past 6 years, and was lucky to get mine. I don't know anyone else that even has one. I already answered how low my car is. 1.75"F, 1.5" R.

The shop caused the damage. I can certainly choose where I want to get it fixed. I could take my car to get fixed at even more expensive place like Maranello's but I know the shop I chose is reasonable. I tried to work with the shop to save him money and time. The last conversation I had where I went to the shop to talk to him, I thought he was going to give me the $472 as I had told him a couple days prior that he could either give me the money, go through insurance, or go to court. He didn't want to talk on the phone, so I went to the shop. It turns out it was more waste of my time. So now, it looks court is where this will head. Now, I'm asking for the amount insurance appraised this at, as I shouldn't have to go through all this trouble.

Disoblige, I did say to put the car up on the ramp again on the last video I posted. Then he said he didn't want to deal with me any more.

[top_speed]

Man I would hate to work on your car

[spikerS]

Originally posted by top_speed
Man I would hate to work on your car

yeah, being accountable for your mistakes when damaging other people's property is not for everyone.

[psycoticclown]

So much misinformation in this thread. OP was completely reasonable, was even willing to go out of his way, spend his own time by removing and reinstalling the lip and bumper as well as leaving his car at the body shop so he could save the owner some money. That's a lot of fucking work, it's a huge hassle not having a car, that was a gesture of good will and the owner basically told him to fuck himself. Is $741 a bit much to repair a lip? Sure it is, but there was a much cheaper option too at one point.

Originally posted by SportEL
This is how it is going so far. I am working with the owner for a mutual agreement.

I want to take it to the bodyshop of my choice, Screamin. He wants me to take it to his 'guy' which I am adamant that I will not. I told him I will agree not to leave my car at the bodyshop to save him the cost of the 2 day rental, as well as to save the cost of the bodyshop removing the bumper and lip and re-installing it, I am letting him do it. I sent him a new quote based on this so instead of $634, it is $472.

I spoke with him today and told him okay to save you the time, I will do the removal and re-install myself, and now he is offering me $250, then upped to $300. I believe I am conceding a lot already, so what do you guys think?

I absolutely agree with the OP, the owner was a douchebag from the beginning, pretty damning video evidence and he still chose to argue it and say it wasn't his fault. There was also no apology, which is ridiculous. I personally would go out of my way to see a business go down if I was in this same situation. No apology is inexcusable. At my work, if a customer comes in with a problem, even if it's their mistake that caused the problem, we will work with them to make sure that they are taken care of, even if that means the company having to reimburse a customer for their own mistake.

[5fivespeed]

It all depends on how you initially approached the situation? I'm sure if I walk into your local Tim Hortons and start giving an employee attitude - I'll get it right back. The owner is right though, Diamond Plate is not on a hoist/lift for no reason. It's not a metal that has severe abrasiveness.

Unfortunately yes, the damage on the EL front lip was done, how was it initially handled? The OP also suggests (page 9) on a thread from 2010 that he takes his car to Airways Brake and Muffler prior - what changed then? I'm very sure his EL was still lowered.



Does your insurance company cover your vehicle since it has been modified? What about in court?