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Thread: Replacing Airbag seats with buckets legal?

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by RickDaTuner





    They will most certainly deploy with a code present.

    The only thing that will take place with an airbag light present on the dash or cluster during an accident is the elimination of the faulted module or circuit, all other airbags and supplemental restraint systems will function as normal.

    There is alway the option of removing the airbag modules from your stock seat and attatching them to the buckets. Many of the after market apolstry shops will do this when fabricating new seats.

    You are required to transfer over the SRS tag from the seats and use airbag approved thread to stitch the seam where the airbag is in place as well.

    People who remove them and leave them out typically defeat the warning light by placing a resistor in the circuit but being BMW, that side airbag more than likely has a logic board built in, and will need to be bypassed by another method.
    I don't know if it is different on certain vehicles but I had an airbag light on my 09 civic and was told my both the dealership and online that my airbags would not deploy at all in the event of an accident if the light is on.

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    It's a liability so we say it wont deploy.

    The light is on due to a small problem but now it's on and you don't know what other underlying codes can be tripped as well, such as main controller fault etc. You wont know if a second fault is ever triggered.

    I will always cover my ass when returning an unrepaired airbag fault.

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    Originally posted by CSMRX7
    Not the cheapest seats in the world

    http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...=2010GT3_seats
    What do you mean? You save 9.86% !
    Originally posted by www.suncoastparts.com

    MSRP: $19,859.00
    Price:$17,900.00
    You Save: 9.86%

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    So turns out the since the side airbags are optional the dealer can actually code the car to think there is no side airbags. This is interesting but doesn't solve the insurance issue. As the car came with side airbags would insurance cover a claim if they were removed even though they are an option.

    I could always ask my insurance agent but hate asking them questions like this as they just end up flagging your account even if you don't proceed.

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    Originally posted by CSMRX7
    So turns out the since the side airbags are optional the dealer can actually code the car to think there is no side airbags. This is interesting but doesn't solve the insurance issue. As the car came with side airbags would insurance cover a claim if they were removed even though they are an option.

    I could always ask my insurance agent but hate asking them questions like this as they just end up flagging your account even if you don't proceed.
    Keep in mind what is said over the phone is very different than what actually happens. I don't see why a reputable dealer would disable airbags. Even if it was a factory option to not have them they are still changing the safety system for that vehicle. Ide say you would drop your car off, then get a phone call saying that they can't/won't do the programming. You still will have to work around occupant sensors.

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    Are you missing the part where he is installing OEM seats?

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by ercchry
    Are you missing the part where he is installing OEM seats? [/QUOTE


    All that Im saying is the dealer will not re-program or dissable the airbag system. Even if he puts the GT2 seats in it still may set codes. The airbag squibs may be different.
    You are taking a system that was designed to save lives and not be fucked with, then trying to by pass it or cheat it but still have it functual? It doesnt work like that. On top of that no shop will ever take on the responsibly of dissabling a safety system. Shops are getting sued over putting on rims with out tpms sensors in them you think they are going to be taking out airbag systems?


    Im no insurance expert but after being in this industry for a long time and seeing the stupid shit people get sued over. Im sure If you take out the airbags and there is a fatality involved I can see you insurance company being difficult because you took out a system that may have saved that life.
    Last edited by HO2S; 05-29-2013 at 11:53 AM.

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    Originally posted by CSMRX7
    So turns out the since the side airbags are optional the dealer can actually code the car to think there is no side airbags. This is interesting but doesn't solve the insurance issue. As the car came with side airbags would insurance cover a claim if they were removed even though they are an option.

    I could always ask my insurance agent but hate asking them questions like this as they just end up flagging your account even if you don't proceed.
    It's typicall that most German manufactures will only use one module for various cars and have different programming for them. I say get'er done, this methode is always reversible if you want to sell the car as well.

    Have some one else call for you, making sure they do not mention your name. I suppose this works best from a different phone number as well.

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    What about those of us that don't have an alternative factory option for the seats (not trying to thread jack OP) are we SOL?

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    So I figured out I am too fat for the clubsport/Carrera GT seats so that makes it easy to reject those (but I think the price was enough of an deturant).

    The GT2 seats are plug and play and need no coding so that is an option or by a race only seat for the track.

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    Originally posted by CSMRX7
    or by a race only seat for the track.
    And then swap the seat just for track days?

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    Originally posted by 94boosted
    What about those of us that don't have an alternative factory option for the seats (not trying to thread jack OP) are we SOL?
    If its a matter of getting rid if the light on the dash, then you'll need to get airbag simulators.

    You can try and persuade a technician for your make or parts person to order you a set of the service simulators, or buy the universal ones from eBay or other speed shops.

    Your not SOL but the options require a bit more effort.

    Like other have mentioned, there are lower models without side airbags, and can be programmed the same way the Porsche would, but it's a little more involved.

    In a GM vehs case you have to call Tech Support and get a new programming package for the vin of your Veh, and them reprogram it, but tech support is not so easily persuaded, and something like that will definitely bring up legal red flags from GM directly.

    For Fords if you are able to get the proper as-built data for the model without side air bags, then you'll just have to use their scan tool to re write the binary of that module, there is a special code you need to enter to allow this to happen though.

    Most imports will be a simulator though
    Last edited by RickDaTuner; 05-29-2013 at 01:09 PM.

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    Originally posted by 94boosted


    And then swap the seat just for track days?
    That would be the plan.

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    Its pretty funny that of all the parts on that site, seats are the most expensive I could find. Crazy stuff, I didnt even think there were $17,000 seats. I have 10 cars that arent worth as much as those seats combined! haha

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    Originally posted by RickDaTuner


    If its a matter of getting rid if the light on the dash, then you'll need to get airbag simulators.

    You can try and persuade a technician for your make or parts person to order you a set of the service simulators, or buy the universal ones from eBay or other speed shops.

    Your not SOL but the options require a bit more effort.

    Like other have mentioned, there are lower models without side airbags, and can be programmed the same way the Porsche would, but it's a little more involved.

    In a GM vehs case you have to call Tech Support and get a new programming package for the vin of your Veh, and them reprogram it, but tech support is not so easily persuaded, and something like that will definitely bring up legal red flags from GM directly.

    They make a simulator specifically for this for my car (http://www.vetteworksonline.net/cata...roducts_id=109) but my only real concern is nobody will gurantee that once the seat airbags are bypassed with this simulator the rest of the airbags will work.


    Originally posted by CSMRX7


    That would be the plan.
    Seems like a lot of work

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    100% they will work, I've seen it first hand?

    What needs to be explain is that when you remove the side air bag module, and install a simulator, all you are doing is elling the SRS module that there is air bag present. Whet comes time that you may find to itself in a side impact collision, the SRS will attempt to fire the side air bag and it will not deploy because there is no airbag present.

    If the SRS module detect a forward or roll over condition, than each airbag will deploy as pre the condition.

    When these type of simulator are used a Vehicle with a passenger presence system, then they will tell the SRS module that there is indeed a properly weighted passengers in the passenger seat and deploy as normal.

    You cannot by pass a modern car with a passenger presence system due to the SRS system needing to have the weight sensor calibrated and zero'd out ,simulators can not account for this.

    There are greater legal ramifications for a manufacturer to say that a supplemental safety system, will not function if one component is faulty, than for a single component to fault and allow th rest of the system to functn as normal in a collision.
    Last edited by RickDaTuner; 05-29-2013 at 05:46 PM.

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    Originally posted by RickDaTuner
    100% they will work, I've seen it first hand?

    What needs to be explain is that when you remove the side air bag module, and install a simulator, all you are doing is elling the SRS module that there is air bag present. Whet comes time that you may find to itself in a side impact collision, the SRS will attempt to fire the side air bag and it will not deploy because there is no airbag present.

    If the SRS module detect a forward or roll over condition, than each airbag will deploy as pre the condition.

    When these type of simulator are used a Vehicle with a passenger presence system, then they will tell the SRS module that there is indeed a properly weighted passengers in the passenger seat and deploy as normal.

    You cannot by pass a modern car with a passenger presence system due to the SRS system needing to have the weight sensor calibrated and zero'd out ,simulators can not account for this.

    There are greater legal ramifications for a manufacturer to say that a supplemental safety system, will not function if one component is faulty, than for a single component to fault and allow th rest of the system to functn as normal in a collision.
    Thanks a lot for clearing this up.

    If I understand you correctly the weight sensor/bladder on the passenger seat does need to be swapped from the factory seat to the aftermarket seat so that the pass front airbags still functions correctly.

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    Yeah that would be the most ideal situation, some of the weight sensing gel packs are bondided to the seat cushion though.

    It's often that manufactures will place the air bag and weight sensing circuit in their own sheilded runs to prevent electro magnetic interference from each other as the entire SRS system is very sensitive.

  19. #39
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    The whole purpose of the seat sensor is for the airbag module to know who is in what seat and how much they weigh. Depending on how much the occupant weighs and how fast the vehicle is going and how hard the vehicle impacts determines how fast the airbags deploy along with the seat belt pretensioners.

    I'm sure you could wire in resistors into the the airbag squibs, seat belt buckle squibs, and occupant sensors to fool the system. But what happens then you actually get into a accident and the airbag module sends 20V to 50V to your little radio shack resistors. Now that you have smashed into something and have possible injuries you have a fire to deal with from the resistors melting because they cannot handle 50v of power. I'd say a little piece of tape over the air bag light would be better.


    When you program on a vehicle you have a calibration ID number. The program that you are flashing in has a actual part number from the manufacture according to your vin number. You don't just get a factory scan tool and make up your own shit it doesn't work like that. You cannot program what ever you feel like in a vehicle. If your vin does not correspond with the program you are trying to put in it's not going to happen.
    Last edited by HO2S; 06-01-2013 at 07:25 PM.

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