HELP: Rx8 engine problem

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Rotary engines are always a nightmare, and I am trapped in it right now.

Wednesday night my rx8 crapped out on me. Was driving the car all day with no signs of issues. After an hour or 2 of driving my throttle lost all power and was virtually unresponsive. Pull aside on the road and it stalled at low rpm and very heavy idle.

Car starts (most of the time now) but has heavy idling and stalls if I do not manually keep the rpm over 1k.

The car is barely drive-able. Drove it home from where it stalled initially but had to keep the RPM over 4500 in order for it to keep remain at constant speed. Very rough idle throughout.

Now my car is towed to the dealership and I am told that I need to get full maintenance to see if that helps first. HOWEVER this costs 1200 bucks with no guarantee that this is the root of the issue. Even after getting this done if the problem still remains, I may need to still replace the engine (another 5-6k on top of the 1.2k).

This maintenance includes : spark plugs, coils, and wires, with labor.

If anyone here can give me suggestions, or knows someone who can fix rotary engines well PLEASE let me know! My car is not worth a fix of over 2500.

I am right now contemplating on only replacing spark plugs costing around 360 at the dealer.

***UPDATE*** July 7

Changed all spark plugs and coils (used coils that are in good condition from 5g_celica, thanks again).

unfortunately the car had zero changes or affects. the engine is toast or virtually dead. I will have to figure a way to get warranty since I am technically still covered by warranty however the dealership I am at right now is saying I dont have a solid oil change record and is voiding my warranty (receipts to prove I have maintained the car).

I will be trying a different dealership tomorrow.

[962 kid]

If you're worried about the state of the engine, have a comp test done before any parts changing

[sr20s14zenki]

One thing to know about these, is coilpacks go, and they are known to go at 35,000 MILES. They are junk, plain and simple. Compression test would be good, and i know damn well the dealer has the proper compression tester.

[Team_Mclaren]

Yup, do a compression first before you do anything else. There's no point spending all that money when the engine is toasted.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

The guy from the dealership told me there is "no way" to tell if its engine problem or spark plug/coil issue...

Spark plugs are 360
Coils are 585
Wires 100

I'll ask them about the compression test once they are open again. Any more suggestions would be great! Thanks guys

[sr20s14zenki]

You can get coils for cheaper elsewhere. In this case, i would use the rock auto ones...i mean, how much shittier can you get than the factory ones?

and bullshit they cant tell you if its engine issues. Thats a blatant lie. Mazda has a special compression tester for rotary engines. You Can use a conventional one, but theirs is better. It tells you the condition of each chamber, etc....



How many k on the car.


It sounds like symptoms of bad plugs or coils to me...but hard to say.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

It has 130,000km or so. I will have to give mazda a call and see what they say regarding this. The dealerships are never honest about these things.

[sr20s14zenki]

It is most likely ignition failure. If you look up your symptoms, it totally makes sense.

Coils thru rock auto are like 40$ a piece.

oh and look, plugs are only 17$ a piece.

If you can operate a wrench, this is very easy, just do it yourself. You unplug the coils, and remove em, then you unscrew the plugs, make sure not to mix up leading and trailing. Do one at a time.

Then, replace all coil packs with new ones.

Hopefully you didnt damage your cat on the drive home.

[Kloubek]

While I do hope this is something else, it does sound a LOT like what happened when my FC lost a rotor.

But I agree with others - get it tested before doing all that potentially useless work.

[Hallowed_point]

I'm gonna bite my tongue here and not say what I really want to say other then good luck..hope you can get it fixed without spending a fortune.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Where could I purchase the coils locally?

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by Power_Of_Rotary
Where could I purchase the coils locally?

The dealer, thats the problem.

If you ordered from rockauto.com you would have em within the week i guess. Plugs too.

I would do that by yourself for how cheap it is, and then see what happens from there. If you are down a rotor, forget the dealership. Talk to conroy at 4kruzn.

[HO2S]

Oh man, I already see were this is headed.
The problem with customer supplied parts is the shop looses quality control and are forced to uphold warranty. Even if the customer supplied parts fail the shop takes the hit for it. You are going to get a cold reception when you show up at the dealer with a handful of coils.

I'm sure you were told that right now your engine needs a full tune up because it is worn and they don't want to blindly call a $6000 engine. You have to start with what you know is broken first then go from there.

If you do a compression test and or leak down test the results will be skewed because you have cylinders full of fuel that will give you false readings. You need a engine that has a properly working fuel and ignition system before you can determine if you have a mechanical problem.

The mazda compression tester is a electronic running compression tester. A compression tester lead with a pressure transducer fed into a graphing scope is a way better tool.

If you show up at the dealer with a bunch of pages printed off of internet forms on what it could be, you are going to get your keys handed back to you. Every thing besides the people actually working on you car is speculation. Its is up to you the customer to use your discernment to decide if you are getting fed a line on bs and not hand them a pile of cash or get a second opinion.
Unfortunately in Calgary there are very few rotary specialists. The last I heard there is a girl at Kramer that is very good. I have heard that 4kruzn is good also besides that you don't have many options.

[DeleriousZ]

Originally posted by HO2S
Oh man, I already see were this is headed.
The problem with customer supplied parts is the shop looses quality control and are forced to uphold warranty. Even if the customer supplied parts fail the shop takes the hit for it. You are going to get a cold reception when you show up at the dealer with a handful of coils.

Is there any way to get an agreement so there's warranty on the labor, but not the installed parts? Or something like that. I know shops hate dealing with customer supplied parts, because they can be unknown and the shop can't provide warranty on the parts (even though most clueless customers expect them to). However, dealerships charge extortionist prices on parts, and it's really hard to swallow paying $400 for something you can pick up for $40 that's made by the exact same manufacturer.


Rock auto is amazing, if you don't mind forking out for the shipping. My roommate recently ordered stuff from RA and forked out for the expensive shipping. Stuff was here within a day and a half, delivered by UPS with no duty/brokerage fees.

[zieg]

Rotaries are only nightmares for people who don't think they need to maintain them

[AE92_TreunoSC]

Now that I know more about Rx8's having worked on a few and replaced engines I would definitely start with compression, if that fails an oil injector test for sure. If I owned that car I could install the 4 plugs in minutes and I still wouldnt try that without doing a compression test.

Even a half assed test with a regular gauge can tell you if its screwed.

[georgemagana]

Don't know how many times I read this on the rx8forums. Do NOT pay that at the dealer, you need a compression test done first. What year rx8? Did you replace your sparkplugs and coils?

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by DeleriousZ


Is there any way to get an agreement so there's warranty on the labor, but not the installed parts? Or something like that. I know shops hate dealing with customer supplied parts, because they can be unknown and the shop can't provide warranty on the parts (even though most clueless customers expect them to). However, dealerships charge extortionist prices on parts, and it's really hard to swallow paying $400 for something you can pick up for $40 that's made by the exact same manufacturer.


Rock auto is amazing, if you don't mind forking out for the shipping. My roommate recently ordered stuff from RA and forked out for the expensive shipping. Stuff was here within a day and a half, delivered by UPS with no duty/brokerage fees.

Exactly, the dealers prices for the coilpacks AND the plugs, is downright rediculous. 330$ for a set of plugs? Fuck off.

The reason i recommend changing plugs and coilpacks over having a compression test done, is simple. These engines are NOTORIOUS for prematurely failing coilpacks. Hell, thats an understatement, if you read the forums, they WILL fail at around 40,000 miles or less, and when they DO fail, they will cause your cat to load up with fuel and melt almost every time. If he does the coilpacks and plugs, and it still runs like shit, well atleast he did what is considered preventative maintenance. I also recommended he do those himself, since a guy who owns a car like that should AT LEAST know how to change his own plugs. If you cant do that my friend, you own the wrong car......

Get used to changing your plugs if you plan on keeping this car, because they recommend you do them every 30,000K or less. Most rx7 guys will do em when they notice a bit of hard starting when cold.

If you do the plugs and coils, and it still doesnt work, at least you can use them on your new engine and have a trouble free ignition system...right? They may be a cheaper part from rockauto, but really, how much shittier can you get than a factory mazda part that fails in 40,000 miles?

good luck man.

[sr20s14zenki]

Oh, and you want a poor mans compression test just to tell if its alive while you do the plugs?

Pull the fuel pump fuse, and pull all of the connectors off the coil packs, make sure you watch which one goes where. Then take the leading plug out of the front chamber, and crank it, you should hear three distinct "chuffs" in a row.

this guys sounds good


Put the plug back in the front, and do the same on the back, should hear the same distinct 3 chuffs. If you don't, you have an apex seal out, and its engine time.

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/ro...lder/comp.html

some information above.

[MrSector9]

Also to add to what SR said, you can also plug the spark plug hole with your finger tip getting a good seal and make sure it will "blow" your finger off on each compression "stroke"

Also if you already have a thread in compression tester or can borrow one, you can just pull the valve out of the end and you can watch the "bounce" on the gauge, this is not accurate to actual numbers but will give you a very good indication that all 3 cmpression strokes are the same on both rotors.