HELP: Rx8 engine problem

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner


Thanks man I appreciate the write up and vid.

I used be to interested in rotory engines back in my late teens, I can recall reading much of what you've outlined, but it's been so long that I couldn't bring up from memory on demand.

I owned my TII for years and did all the research in the world, it all meant precisely shit Until you pull one apart and put it back together with your own hands it's tough to make all the parts on a screen or a page come to life.

[Alak]

Mazdatrix is a good resource to get an idea of what the parts cost. I just did a build on mine, and was able to reuse a lot of parts that were within Mazda's Specifications. I only had to purchase a new seal kit and E-Shaft.

It is highly recommended to use only OEM Mazda Parts. Its a very simple engine, but its very time consuming to measure everything, and assemble it properly. Don't let that shy you away. If you decide to tackle the project yourself, the factory service manual is your best starting resource.

But you just wont know until you do a compression test first, before anything else!


Example:

The guy I bought my car off thought the engine was totally blown! It sat in his garage for 5 years not moving. Turned out, it was just the vacuum hose going to the brake booster was massively cracked. I discovered this after I bought the car and did a visual inspection of everything.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Alak


It is highly recommended to use only OEM Mazda Parts. Its a very simple engine, but its very time consuming to measure everything, and assemble it properly. Don't let that shy you away. If you decide to tackle the project yourself, the factory service manual is your best starting resource.

Again I completely agree

[Alak]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Again I completely agree

I've spent the last 5 years to become a heavy equipment technician. I've done some very expensive repairs for customers on some very expensive pieces of equipment. You learn to do it right the first time. These are not the kind of customers you want coming back to look for warranty. The best thing I learned was:

RTFM

Read The Fucking Manual.

Hahaha.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Price? I haven't priced a proper build out in years. Rest assured it's big bucks to do it right.

Depends on the scope of the rebuild, but I think it's getting close to 7g in parts now assuming that e-shaft and stat gears are salvageable. I bought a "new" crate motor from Malloy in 2011 and it was 5g, but I suspect it was built by a reman center from new parts rather than Mazda Japan. Prices on rotors have gone up a bunch since then, and Ray at Malloy says they have no more new engines.

big bucks

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


I owned my TII for years and did all the research in the world, it all meant precisely shit Until you pull one apart and put it back together with your own hands it's tough to make all the parts on a screen or a page come to life.

x100

I read 5 different manuals, bugged(bug) the Enigma often, took apart 3 REWs, spent a couple hundred bucks on SAE articles and antiquated Mazda documents/books, and generally screwed around reading and practicing as much as I could for 2 years before I put my first one back together. Reading the manuals helps with procedure and a general understanding of the engine, but you don't really begin to get a grasp of the quirks and intricacies of the engine until you spend some real time with one on a bench.

[rx7_turbo2]

Back when I first started working with rotaries if you blew a motor and needed housings or even rotors, you could find blown cores, and salvage a housing or rotor or sometimes both from them. Play the mix and mach game and build yourself a decent motor. Those days appear long gone. Because the main parts (rotors, housings, irons) cannot be repaired and reused the supply has dwindled to well honestly non existent. The alternative? Buy new from Mazda. I keep hearing that even buying new is becoming difficult, and that's part of the reason the prices have taken a jump.

I don't own my TII any longer. When I see an RX-7 doesn't matter what year, and to a lesser extent an RX-8, I think to myself "that guy has balls" because I know what it takes to own one, keep it running, and battle the constant misinformation and ignorance regarding them. I will own another rotary powered vehicle again one day, they truly are a special breed of vehicle, as are the nut jobs that own them.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Thanks Guys for the input! I am still on the line on what to do. Since coils only cost me 120 or so I will try that route first. Even a compression test at the dealership cost me 150... I might as well gamble that on the coils, and if that fails ill probably need to replace the engine.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Power_Of_Rotary
Thanks Guys for the input! I am still on the line on what to do. Since coils only cost me 120 or so I will try that route first. Even a compression test at the dealership cost me 150... I might as well gamble that on the coils, and if that fails ill probably need to replace the engine.

As previously mentioned most of us learned by trial and error so you might as well too. Fingers crossed the coils solve the problem. Let us know the outcome.

[slammedfc]

Originally posted by HO2S


Yes I am a mechanic by trade and I specialize in run ability and engine diagnostics.

don't you mean DRIVEability......

[zieg]

Well, truthfully the coils are past their replacement interval, regardless of whether or not they help fix the immediate problem. And tired coils can also lead to issues.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
Well, truthfully the coils are past their replacement interval, regardless of whether or not they help fix the immediate problem. And tired coils can also lead to issues.

bingo

[HO2S]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Agreed. He should leave it.

You are missing one big point, and that is technology. You say you had a turbo II for years and know every ins and outs of the mechanics. That is technology that came from the 70's to mid 90's. Those engines run off a primitive 8 bit computer with next to no diagnostics or adaptive technology. If you are even able to plug a scan tool into the car you will get about 10 pids that will refresh every second or two. You are forced to rely on basic mechanical testing that is time consuming and can be misleading.

Fast forward to 2008. Basic computers are obsolete, OBDI is obsolete, OBDII is obsolete. The engine that the op has runs off CAN bus. That means you can plug a scan tool in and get about 50 pids that refresh every millisecond pulse bidirectional control of may components and systems. You can go into mode 6, the actual programming of the system and see why certain codes were set.
Most up to date competent techs can plug a scan tool in, spend 15 minutes looking at data and get a good direction of were to go. There is a reason why a tune up was called. I can see it, you cannot.

As stated before I am a tech, I spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars every year trying to keep up to date with technology. I take time out of my personal life so I can do a good job at work and take pride in what I do.

Automotives have come along way in the last 30 years, If you do not work full time in this industry you will be left in the past just like your self.

If you want to take the two sentences that I wrote out of hast and paint me as a moron, knock your self out.

As far as Mazda is concerned the rotary is dead, and never was a big seller. Hence why not very many techs know much about it. Maybe you should help the op out?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HO2S


You are missing one big point, and that is technology. You say you had a turbo II for years and know every ins and outs of the mechanical technology. That is technology that came from the 70's to mid 90's. Those engines run off a primitive 8 bit computer with next to no diagnostics or adaptive technology. If you are even able to plug a scan tool into the car you will get about 10 pids that will refresh every second or two. You are forced to rely on basic mechanical testing that is time consuming and can be misleading.

Fast forward to 2008. Basic computers are obsolete, OBDI is obsolete, OBDII is obsolete. The engine that the op has runs off CAN bus. That means you can plug a scan tool in and get about 50 pids that refresh every millisecond pulse bidirectional control of may components and systems. You can go into mode 6, the actual programming of the system and see why certain codes were set.
Most up to date competent techs can plug a scan tool in, spend 15 minutes looking at data and get a good direction on were to go. There is a reason why a tune up was called. I can see it, you cannot.

As stated before I am a tech, I spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars every year trying to keep up to date with technology. I take time out of my personal life so I can do a good job at work and take pride in what I do.

Automotives have come along way in the last 30 years, If you do not work full time in this industry you will be left in the past just like your self.

If you want to take the two sentences that I wrote out of hast and paint me as a moron, knock your self out.

As far as Mazda is concerned the rotary is dead, and never was a big seller. Hence why not very many techs know much about it. Maybe you should help the op out?

Thanks for the lesson

For the record my TII ran on a standalone EMS.

The title of this thread is "RX8 engine problem" and you suggested the flooded cylinders and leak down test. ANYTHING you say in this thread should be discounted as complete nonsense. I don't need to paint you as a moron, you're doing a pretty good job of it yourself. Feel free to continue, I don't appear to be the only one enjoying it.

Again my suggestion is to just leave this thread alone. My guess is your ego won't let you. You love to wax poetic about your training, what you know, how much you've spent on training. It means precisely DICK when it comes to a rotary. So please do us all a favor and just go find one of the other countless threads where you can flex your mechanic muscles. You said it, the rotary is dead, so leave it to us, we've got it covered thanks. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it was meant to be. I blame ignorant mechanics like yourself for why the rotary has gotten such a bad rap in North America, sadly your attitude towards it is part of the reason it's always been on the fringe, you don't know how it works, try to apply principles from your standard training, and generally bungle the whole mess up in the end. Anybody who's been in the rotary community for any length of time has seen and dealt with mechanics just like yourself, and knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[Unknown303]

For some reason all this thread has done is made me want one more...

[HO2S]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Thanks for the lesson

For the record my TII ran on a standalone EMS.

The title of this thread is "RX8 engine problem" and you suggested the flooded cylinders and leak down test. ANYTHING you say in this thread should be discounted as complete nonsense. I don't need to paint you as a moron, you're doing a pretty good job of it yourself. Feel free to continue, I don't appear to be the only one enjoying it.

Again my suggestion is to just leave this thread alone. My guess is your ego won't let you. You love to wax poetic about your training, what you know, how much you've spent on training. It means precisely DICK when it comes to a rotary. So please do us all a favor and just go find one of the other countless threads where you can flex your mechanic muscles. You said it, the rotary is dead, so leave it to us, we've got it covered thanks. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it was meant to be. I blame ignorant mechanics like yourself for why the rotary has gotten such a bad rap in North America, sadly your attitude towards it is part of the reason it's always been on the fringe, you don't know how it works, try to apply principles from your standard training, and generally bungle the whole mess up in the end. Anybody who's been in the rotary community for any length of time has seen and dealt with mechanics just like yourself, and knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Remember How I said if you want to take the two sentences that I said in haste, you just did.

If you were up to date you would know that technicians have absolutely no input of future engineering.

Help the op out, he needs it!


I know where I stand and its not in the same place as you.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Unknown303
For some reason all this thread has done is made me want one more...

Mine made close to 400rwhp for the better part of 5 years, not babied kms either, the new owner is driving same power level maybe more on the same engine. If you build it properly with good parts, and you know what your doing when it comes to tuning it, they will make great power and run reliably for km after km. The problem is as mentioned you CANNOT apply standard principles to them, the are NOT standard engines. Stubborn mechanics that can't get that through there thick skulls are the majority of the problem. Despite what HO2S would have everyone believe (again showing his ignorance) the rotary is not "dead" as far as Mazda is concerned. Lots of reports lately of future rotary technology and alternative fuel options.

[HO2S]

And again, factory programming is very different than a aftermarket EMS system.

[HO2S]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Mine made close to 400rwhp for the better part of 5 years, not babied kms either, the new owner is driving same power level maybe more on the same engine. If you build it properly with good parts, and you know what your doing when it comes to tuning it, they will make great power and run reliably for km after km. The problem is as mentioned you CANNOT apply standard principles to them, the are NOT standard engines. Stubborn mechanics that can't get that through there thick skulls are the majority of the problem. Despite what HO2S would have everyone believe (again showing his ignorance) the rotary is not "dead" as far as Mazda is concerned. Lots of reports lately of future rotary technology and alternative fuel options.

Would you like to compare more apples to oranges?
This is not a modified engine.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HO2S


Remember How I said if you want to take the two sentences that I said in haste, you just did.

If you were up to date you would know that technicians have absolutely no input of future engineering.

Help the op out, he needs it!


I know where I stand and its not in the same place as you.

Blah blah blah. In a rotary thread you mentioned flooded cylinders and a leak down test. Nothing else matters dude, you hung yourself. You jammed a gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger. You can't dig your way out of this. I mean don't stop it's entertaining as fuck but.......

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HO2S

Would you like to compare more apples to oranges?
This is not a modified engine.

Blah blah blah. In a rotary thread you mentioned flooded cylinders and a leak down test. Nothing else matters dude, you hung yourself.