Keystone XL: Threaten US with oil railcars and trucks.

[ZenOps]

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil...Not-Built.html

"Now, in a breathtaking display of chutzpah, the Canadian ambassador to the U.S. is warning President Obama if he does not approve the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, then he can expect similar oil trains and even trucks to enter the U.S."

I've always felt the US has been extremely lucky insofar that there hasn't been a major incident where an unarmored oil/gasoline truck has exploded on a 12+ lane major highway just by sheer coincidence on an unfortunate ricochet by the daily road rage firearm occurances.

They make armor piercing rounds down there afterall, and there is no way to control the one in a million psychos out there that do evil things like disable brakes on trains or shoot at people on the road.

I'm not sure the public truely understands the alternative to pipelines.

[Inzane]

Oil (crude) does not explode.


As far as gasoline goes, I wasn't aware that Canada exports refined finished product south of the border (by railcar, truck or pipeline), but I suppose that's not out of the realm of possibility. If they have domestic and/or eco terrorists blowing up gasoline tankers down in the US, that's more than likely an internal problem for the US though.

[themack89]

I think it's very tough to make a case for going train/truck route over pipeline.

One thing that has always bothered me though is why even moar flows down to Cushing? How is the bottle neck situation anybody know?

[ZenOps]

Crude can explode at around 400 celsius, what usually happens is that it burns slowly until it reaches a critical temperature in the other oil containers.

I don't know how long it would take, but an armor piercing round igniting crude would reach dangerous temperatures in a matter of minutes. There is also next to zero water in many US highways. You can only truck in maybe two firetrucks worth of water, which will keep things from exploding (or maybe its better to say, napalming) for a few more minutes.

Much much worse is a regular bullet taking out the tires of a crude truck, causing jacknife and break in half.

In order to breach a metal crude railcar with heat alone, temperatures have to be around 1400 celsius, easily achievable as Lac Magantic has proven.

[Nufy]

KXL actually will run to Steele City Nebraska where a new terminal will be built.

40° 2'18.87"N
96°59'57.22"W

From there it heads east through Missouri to a terminal in Patoka Illinois.

A separate line will run to Cushing and then on to Port Arthur, TX

[Feruk]

I've found it obsurd how a pipeline is a difficult decision vs rail shipping of crude. That we're even having a discussion is insane IMO. What happened in Quebec will happen again.

Originally posted by themack89
One thing that has always bothered me though is why even moar flows down to Cushing? How is the bottle neck situation anybody know?

Differentials have dropped significantly in the last few months.

[themack89]

ZenOps I don't follow what you're trying to say...

KXL actually will run to Steele City Nebraska where a new terminal will be built.

40° 2'18.87"N
96°59'57.22"W

From there it heads east through Missouri to a terminal in Patoka Illinois.

A separate line will run to Cushing and then on to Port Arthur, TX

Ah ok. Is the line line from Port Arthur going to be newly constructed? And what are capacities in and out of those lines do you know? Still curious to know whats going on at Cushing since I haven't followed it for a couple years.

Originally posted by Feruk

Differentials have dropped significantly in the last few months.

Yes... Thanks for that, I believe it was positive like a week ago (or negative depending how you read it). But stating a fact out of context says nothing about the vastly complex oil market lol. Actually, it was just a simple yes or no question. Is oil flowing into cushing faster than it is flowing out? I could google it but it might prompt some interesting discussion if I just asked it here instead.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Inzane
Oil (crude) does not explode.

But if they are shipping dilbit...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbit

Naptha is straight up serious shit. Pentane is bad enough. Fact is, pipelines are so much safer than rail it's absurd, in the past month there have been quite a few derailments across Canada. CP and CN take shit care of their lines to maximize profits. It's one thing if you drop a load of non-toxic goods, insurance covers that, but if you dump a couple thousand litres of hazardous material? Completely different story.

[01RedDX]

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[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Hope it's not going to run out in our lifetime. .

Is that even possible?

[Nufy]

The extension to port Arthur will be a new line.

I'm not sure on capacities.

I was involved in the commissioning / start-up of the Keystone line and helped with the FAT testing for all of the KXL equipment.

I know the layout but didn't dig into the capacities so much.

[01RedDX]

.

[themack89]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


No, but when alternative energy becomes economically feasible, then we'll have problems. Again, that is not likely to happen in our lifetime either, but the next generation will have some serious adjustments to make.

Elon musk thinks otherwise! Solar within 19 years, contingent upon energy storage technologies.

[01RedDX]

.

[Tik-Tok]

Solar is terrible for anywhere not between the tropics though. Even with excellent storage, you need a serious amount of moveable panels to get the constant amount of energy required just to fill the storage

[e31]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Hope it's not going to run out in our lifetime. .

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Is that even possible?

All it takes is 1 term with an NDP formed government (Provincial or Federal).

[Inzane]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
But if they are shipping dilbit...

You are correct. But there is no reason to ship DilBit via rail or truck. It is only of benefit for pipelines based on pumping requirements.

If you sent Dilbit by rail or truck you are wasting volume (ie. tank capacity) and adding an unnecessary burden on the downstream recipient with no benefit. (unless they specifically want/need the diluent components on their end).

[Nitro5]

I often wondered about clean energy. Many people tout wind power. What effect would there be on the world climate if there were 10's of 1000's of turbines pulling energy out of the wind? What would happen to the Gulf Stream if you start pulling significant energy out of it? Would be interesting to see the climate effect from that.

For the people that say nothing would happen because there is so much energy there, the same was said about be vastness of the atmosphere and the amount of carbon being out into it.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Inzane


(unless they specifically want/need the diluent components on their end).

Which is what I am wondering, as while the oil from the US that "exploded" in the Quebec train crash was not oilsands bitumen, nobody has explained to me yet how those cars all exploded.

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by Nufy
KXL actually will run to Steele City Nebraska where a new terminal will be built.

40° 2'18.87"N
96°59'57.22"W

From there it heads east through Missouri to a terminal in Patoka Illinois.

A separate line will run to Cushing and then on to Port Arthur, TX [/B]

Actually there is no plans for a terminal at Steele City just a pump station.

KXL won't deliver to patoka at all (at least initially). If a shipper wants to deliver to wood river / patoka they will have to do it with the existing keystone line which is in service.

Shippers on KXL will only be able to ship from Hardisty to Cushing, Nederland or Houston initially. The portion from Steele city to Cushing is currently completed and taking deliveries from keystone. Currently the portion from Cushing to Nederland is being constructed and Houston will be completed soon as well.