Tesla Motors

[rage2]

Tesla Model S owner tries to recreate the Model X Accident, nearly crashes into same barrier.

[HiTempguy1]

So do the Tesla cars not have the ability to detect solid objects in their path?

Thats what confuses me most about this, would it not register a big f'in wall and stop?

[300havoc]

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Tesla Model S owner tries to recreate the Model X Accident, nearly crashes into same barrier.

You can see that it is following the solid painted line.... that happens to be for the wrong lane. The line that it should be following is barely there. I wonder if that makes a difference? Also the Chevrons could be confusing it as well. Crazy that the issue happens with more than one different vehicle in the same place. I wonder if they painted the lane line better it would resolve the autopilot issue?

[killramos]

They can, there just seems to be some specific circumstances that prevent the system from working as intended.

I can’t imagine the amount of tuning and false positive rejection this system must have to deal with to prevent the car from slamming in the brakes every time it thinks it saw something momentarily.

The downside to the rejection algorithms is sometimes this happens.

It’s the same for pretty much any other manufacturer, the difference is Tesla keeps releasing beta shit and hyping it up without being clear to their customers if the risks. This is what could really screw them.

Running beta in a video game or something? Bfd. Now beta software in your car at 80 mph? That’s a bit more serious.

[rage2]

Apparently, that's a different road/different barrier in Indiana.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

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They can, there just seems to be some specific circumstances that prevent the system from working as intended.

I can’t imagine the amount of tuning and false positive rejection this system must have to deal with to prevent the car from slamming in the brakes every time it thinks it saw something momentarily.

The downside to the rejection algorithms is sometimes this happens.

It’s the same for pretty much any other manufacturer, the difference is Tesla keeps releasing beta shit and hyping it up without being clear to their customers if the risks. This is what could really screw them.

Running beta in a video game or something? Bfd. Now beta software in your car at 80 mph? That’s a bit more serious.

Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) doesn't really work well on stationary objects at highway speeds, this is across all manufacturers. This is a limitation in using radar (relatively short range and low resolution) and cameras (tech and GPU power not there yet) to detect stationary objects. Lidar can do it much better, but there's a huge cost and physical size barrier to Lidar today. GM's SuperCruise has a bit of an advantage here in that even though it's not equipped with Lidar, it has HD Lidar maps that aids in making autonomous decisions, but that's only useful if the data is current, and the road you're on is mapped. Not that it matters, Tesla says Lidar is the wrong way to go and prefer to run blind.

In Tesla's case, it's even worse. Since they divorced MobileEye with their AP 1.0 suite and went in house, AP 2.0 and 2.5 have been struggling to meet feature parity with AP 1.0, with AEB being hugely behind themselves, and even against other manufacturers. AEB wasn't even available until a year ago for AP 2.0 cars, and when launched, was limited to 28mph. Subsequent updates have increased that limitation, but with the introduction of AP 2.5, again, was launched without AEB, then eventually updated to 50mph about 5 months ago. I'm not sure where AP 2.5 sits in regards to performance and limitation, and I'm sure NTSB will be investigating that thoroughly.

Consumer reports made a huge stink about Tesla's not having AEB last year, which is what prompted Tesla to roll out AEB for AP 2.0 and 2.5 half baked.

Anyways, Tesla's have been rear ending stationary objects forever.

http://autoweek.com/article/technolo...ked-fire-truck

This guy died:



Slow speed:



Here's one ignoring a human:



There's tons more, just have to find them, they're kinda buried on youtube because if you search for Tesla crash you get a shit ton of Tesla avoid crash videos which have nothing to do with stationary objects. People just need to realize that AP isn't anywhere near perfect. It's Level 2 for a reason. Same goes for all the other systems out there from MB, Audi, GM which will make the same mistakes. It's just unfortunate that Tesla marketing and Tesla owners increase the trust in Tesla's AP beyond it's actual abilities.

Kinda funny that last night's Silicon Valley has Dinesh crashing his Tesla the same way too haha.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Musk you mean?

There was a joke in there....

[Buster]

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Tesla Model S owner tries to recreate the Model X Accident, nearly crashes into same barrier.

That's a Darwin test right there.

[dirtsniffer]

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/...la_a_23400966/

[Sugarphreak]

...

[suntan]

It had nothing to with his stupid tweet, and everything to do with the fact that Tesla's doling out junk bonds that pay out @ 6.8%.

[zhao]

^ yup, if anything the tweet was brilliant cover because the stock already tanked in after hours trading before he posted that joke

[Xtrema]

About a year ago, I asked Doug to manage both engineering & production. He agreed that Tesla needed eng & prod better aligned, so we don’t design cars that are crazy hard to build. Right now, tho, better to divide & conquer, so I’m back to sleeping at factory. Car biz is hell …

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 2, 2018

Planned for 20K a month at end of 2017, revised to 10K a month, actually doing 8K a month 3 months late.

And even at that slow rate, it has horrible fit and finish.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Planned for 20K a month at end of 2017, revised to 10K a month, actually doing 8K a month 3 months late.

And even at that slow rate, it has horrible fit and finish.

It's a garbage product from a garbage company, regardless of the few shiny apples. I doubt he'll still be such a genius and a hero to all these people when the gullible lose all their "investment" money. The smart people made their Tesla cash getting in/out, anyone in this long term is going to end up busted I'm sure. He should stick to rockets perhaps solar, that's what's going to ultimately be successful. Sell the cars off to someone who knows what they're doing and hope the entire enterprise doesn't crumble when he does.

[Seth1968]

Gestalt? Gestalt? How come you haven't been defending your god?

Probably because even you are beginning to realize that your god is a shyster. But, at least he isn't invisible

[rage2]

New video showing autopilot following the wrong line towards the barrier.



What's interesting is that AP isn't following the car in front at all. I thought it uses that data too to make proper decisions.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Gestalt? Gestalt? How come you haven't been defending your god?

Probably because even you are beginning to realize that your god is a shyster. But, at least he isn't invisible

Probably too busy trying to cancel his deposits and get his money out of the market.

Edit - Well, if everything they said wasn't complete and utter bullshit. I almost forget that sometimes haha

Edit 2 - Pretty sure that trolling has run its course and they've now returned as Enrichii

[Xtrema]

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New video showing autopilot following the wrong line towards the barrier.



What's interesting is that AP isn't following the car in front at all. I thought it uses that data too to make proper decisions.

Now I wonder if NTSB is bitching at Tesla for releasing info prematurely on this crash because they know they can find evidence that contradict what Tesla said.

May be the warning wasn't there at all as much Tesla wants to push liability on user error again.

[rage2]

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Now I wonder if NTSB is bitching at Tesla for releasing info prematurely on this crash because they know they can find evidence that contradict what Tesla said.

May be the warning wasn't there at all as much Tesla wants to push liability on user error again.

Tesla worded their statement to fit their narrative. If you read exactly what Tesla wrote:

"The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision."

There are 2 separate statements that they put into the same sentence to confuse the reader that it was related. It's not. The driver had hands off for too long earlier in the drive, not during the preceding seconds prior to the accident. There is no indication on when that happened.

The second part of the sentence explains that the car last detected hands on the steering wheel 6 seconds prior to the accident, so at a minimum, there was no "hands off" warning there, or the warning was cancelled at that point. But there's a caveat with both these statements. I've mentioned this earlier, as I've had time behind various versions of Teslas and AP. The car doesn't actually detect hands on steering wheel, it detects torque against the steering wheel. On a perfectly straight road, you can have your hands on the steering wheel and it will still trigger that warning, where you steer the wheel a little to let the car know your hands are actually there to cancel the warning. Mercedes-Benz Drive Pilot has the same setup, but it seems more sensitive to torque against the steering wheel, so the false "no hands on wheels" warning is a lot less than on a Tesla in AP. Not sure about other auto cruise systems.

There was no AP disengaging/Take control now warnings up to the accident, at least not mentioned by Tesla.

At the end of the day, this is just a distraction for Tesla and has zero bearing on their stock price. It's interesting to understand the AP black box a little better though.