Tesla Motors

[ExtraSlow]

Auto insurance will need to modify the business model as self driving cars and even cars with more advanced safety features become more common. . Selling insurance and maintenance as a bundled package is very smart, although it remains to be seen if that would be profitable or just another loss leader to help hype company valuation.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Xtrema]

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Auto insurance will need to modify the business model as self driving cars and even cars with more advanced safety features become more common. . Selling insurance and maintenance as a bundled package is very smart, although it remains to be seen if that would be profitable or just another loss leader to help hype company valuation.

They just want to attack any part of the market that will stop and slow their growth.

At this point, Elon will do and promise a bunch of stuff that may or may not make sense to keep the party going.

Today it's about building a factory near Shanghai.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/22/...-vehicles-cars

How about trying to get Model 3 out to the remaining 440,000 pre-orders where 60,000 cancelled because they can't wait.

[blownz]

This reminds me of a call I had with my insurance company at my last renewal:

Me: So since both of my vehicles have auto cruise control, automatic emergency braking, blind spot monitoring, and lane keeping steering assists, do I get a discount?

Agent: No

Me: So for my next vehicle I should save some money and not get the added safety features and be more likely to get into an accident?

Agent: Ummm......

If you get a discount for an alarm you should get a discount for some of these safety features. I imagine this will start to be a big thing not just with Tesla vehicles, but others as well. But knowing insurance companies they will likely suddenly start adding a surcharge to those vehicles that don't have the features rather than a discount for those that do. lol

[rage2]

Agree with most points. Tesla isn't the only one with these features, lots of cars have them now, just not as marketable as Tesla. IIRC the reason why Tesla's insurance rates went up in the US was due to the average cost of claims now that there's enough data. They're not cheap to fix in an accident.

[suntan]

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This reminds me of a call I had with my insurance company at my last renewal:

Me: So since both of my vehicles have auto cruise control, automatic emergency braking, blind spot monitoring, and lane keeping steering assists, do I get a discount?

These things have to have a material effect on accident rates before insurance companies lower rates based on them.

[blownz]

Agreed, but I don't see how they will ever tell on some models. For instance, a lower level car like a Civic where say less than 10% of all sold have all the safety features. Those 10% may get into significantly fewer accidents, but I doubt the insurance companies look at specific options on vehicles. Just the vehicle line as a whole. So if suddenly 10% of the Civics are getting in far fewer accidents, all Civics might get a 1% reduction in premiums when really those 10% maybe deserve 10-15% and the rest nothing. In fact, even on many higher end German cars most of those features are still options.

That is why I think it should be kind of like the alarm. If you have it, you get a small break.

[suntan]

They do ask for your trim model.

[blownz]

I think for value. And trim still doesn't tell you if the car has optional safety features (at least not on all cars).

[rage2]

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/01/...l-3-struggles/

Terrible quarter for Tesla. Biggest loss in history.

Terrible month for Tesla. They delivered 2 Model 3's. WTF?

[killramos]

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https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/01/...l-3-struggles/

Terrible quarter for Tesla. Biggest loss in history.

Terrible month for Tesla. They delivered 2 Model 3's. WTF?

Hey that’s just because of where the start and end of the month and quarter was. Stop trying to spread blasphemous negativity about Tesla, it’s all fake news. They are taking over the world you know.

Sounds like time for an equity raise!

[BavarianBeast]

I'm short selling TSLA.

Down to $200 bitches.

[rage2]

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I'm short selling TSLA.

Down to $200 bitches.

Too soon IMO.

Short sellers taking a beating this year.

[benyl]

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Hey that’s just because of where the start and end of the month and quarter was. Stop trying to spread blasphemous negativity about Tesla, it’s all fake news. They are taking over the world you know.

Sounds like time for an equity raise!

The haterz don’t know they invented the electric car!

[Xtrema]

So what will Tesla failing looks like? Do they have anything worth salvaging by normal manufacturers or anyone? Gigafactory for penny on the dollar? Bailed out by BYD or some Chinese company?

The problem as well the autopilot is nowhere to be seen while there are all kind of action on that outside of Tesla.

[rage2]

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The biggest question on all our minds now is whether they can scale. Rage are you still a doubter? As far as anyone can tell, they are on track to get to a run rate of 240k cars a year by dec, double that some point in 2018. If thats not scaling, I don't know what to tell you.

@supe just want to bring this back to the discussions since we talked about revisiting this in December.

[suntan]

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So what will Tesla failing looks like? Do they have anything worth salvaging by normal manufacturers or anyone? Gigafactory for penny on the dollar? Bailed out by BYD or some Chinese company?

The problem as well the autopilot is nowhere to be seen while there are all kind of action on that outside of Tesla.

They won't fail, Musk will get even more investors to plow in money like crazy. He is quite the talker.

Besides they fired some workers, that'll teach them to laze around on the job!

[Xtrema]

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@supe just want to bring this back to the discussions since we talked about revisiting this in December.

They blame gigafactory output but they can do battery/solar installation in weeks at Puerto Rico and Australia at short notices.

[RealJimmyJames]

"Production Hell" is two cars? They trying to train hamsters to assemble them or what? Pretty sure any single person with ten fingers could assemble two cars in a month.

[rage2]

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The problem as well the autopilot is nowhere to be seen while there are all kind of action on that outside of Tesla.

Haven't even talked about the mess that's autopilot. Class action lawsuit right now, people paying $8k for vaporware. AP2 still isn't on par with AP1 today, let alone full autonomy.

It came up on the conf call, Elon shrugged it off, but was forced to answer that if in fact full autonomy needs more hardware than AP2, Tesla will upgrade hardware for free. Now from a Tesla as a company perspective, that's fucking brutal. From a customer perspective, great news, if they can make it that far.

I'm expecting a capital raise pretty soon again, but with how their 2025 non convertible bond is trading, it'll be interesting to see how many people are still willing to throw money at them.