Ukraine protests government.

[ZenOps]

I don't think bankers have any more or less interest in any nation other than ones that are easily controllable.

Ukraines situation is not unique, every nation now has an underclass that the bankers will take advantage of (usually through currency, interest, and commodity manipulation)

The US has a much stronger propoganda machine for its local citizenry, even though arguably they are pushing the majority of citizens into debt slavery far worse than Zimbabwe. Propoganda is how they maintain strength, faith and subservience to the US dollar (although technically, its a FED dollar and not a US dollar)

When there is a conflict of propoganda between ideologies (like between Russia and the US) thats when the citizenry starts to polarize. Propoganda is not all on one side, and you get conflicts.

I will say that I think the Russian path is a much much slower path to prosperity. There are very few if any get rich schemes in a communist system. Some people need dreams and hope in order to survive, others are fine with just bread and water.

Canada is also on a much slower path than the US, but its also much safer. We don't spend trillions to go to the moon, and hope that the debt burden does not cripple future generations.

[Arash Boodagh]

Just like the rusting cast iron pans in your avatar, you're advocating the spreading of this rust through out the world by these bankers... and at whose expense? Starting at the most destitute of people through out the world... like resource rich Africans who starve to death and die of simple disease in droves to the Anglo Europeans who are committing suicide because the same bankers have scammed them and their countries economies in such deep debt.
What will the global society look like if the whole pan was rusted because everyone looked out for their own short term interest?
How about another mass genocide of 300 million people by these bankers, it wouldnt be their first time.

As for Ukraine's economy...
"Currently the unemployment rate in the European Union is 24% for persons under 25, and 12% overall.
In Ukraine its 8% for both figures.
....
On top of that Ukraine will loose over 100 billion in trade with Russia if it signs this agreement... something like 160 billion till 2017.

What does the broke EU have to offer Ukraine other then an American military base at Russia's front door"

edit-
Lastly I feel only a minority are on the streets protesting, this is not the whole countries feelings... most of the protesters are probably long term members of groups which are funded by the U.S.
One other thing, Im curious on how Russia's system is communist?

[ZenOps]

Each side has its merits and downfalls.

There is such thing as mutual benefit. Prosperity is not a zero sum game where one person has to lose for someone else to win. It is possible for Ukraine to be productive and actively trade with other nations for its services and goods to benefit of all.

But its very unlikely that the Ukraine can compete with Germany in a goods production capacity. Under the EU, given the choice between a car made in Germany or a car made in the Ukraine, nearly everyone would choose Germany.

Could the middle east compete against Germany? No. Could Canada compete against Germany? No.

That is my dose of reality.

So yes, Ukraine is arguably better under Putin.

[Maybelater]

Probably the best, highest quality footage I've seen so far: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=58b_1392877307

Can't hyper link liveleak, sorry.

[cancer man]

Originally posted by Maybelater
Probably the best, highest quality footage I've seen so far: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=58b_1392877307

Can't hyper link liveleak, sorry.

Terrible situation.

[euro_racer]

Don't think I saw it anywhere but riots and protests across Bosnia as well this last week. Can't forget what's happening Venezuela also.... Civil uprising seems to be pretty popular these days. Wonder what this will eventually mean? Is it for the better or worse?

[ZenOps]

Venezuela is having an economic crisis.

$31,000 fridge. Which is arguably just as bad as a $16 pineapple in nunavut.

Of course we in Canada, will sit back (because were actually on the side that is gaining, the oil side.) Litmus test for me that things have gotten bad enough here to start worrying would be if Quebec has a mass protest of some sort.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by euro_racer
Don't think I saw it anywhere but riots and protests across Bosnia as well this last week. Can't forget what's happening Venezuela also.... Civil uprising seems to be pretty popular these days. Wonder what this will eventually mean? Is it for the better or worse?

The world has just gone through what is arguably it's most peaceful couple decades in per capita deaths (from what I am lead to understand). I personally believe shit will get much more real before it gets much better...

[roll_over]

Just over an hour untill they attack and kill the prez who's watching

Taking bets he walks or gets merked

[ZenOps]

Ouch... Harsh but probably true.

I figure a citizen has until about Sunday night (end of olympics) to safely get their money and physical self out of Ukraine before it gets real. Anyone with means should be considering at the very least a two month holiday with any relatives in any other nation.

Once that line is crossed where you bring the Russian army in (which is huge, make no mistake - its land forces arguably are larger and better paid than the US) Its pretty much game over for physical movement.

[01RedDX]

.

[Maybelater]

"Ukrainian protesters currently playing golf on the President's residence in Kiev"


Live news coverage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_LFrMcoEm4#t=1364376

[ZenOps]

The local police know the score. They would be crushed along with the protestors if the army comes in. A little metal shield might as well be tissue paper.

Shelling tends to take out everyone within a radius. It does not discriminate.

[Maybelater]

Originally posted by ZenOps
The local police know the score. They would be crushed along with the protestors if the army comes in. A little metal shield might as well be tissue paper.

Shelling tends to take out everyone within a radius. It does not discriminate.

Think about all that scrap metal that would be left behind from the shells!

Also the army released a statement saying it won't become engaged the 'domestic' matter.

[ZenOps]

Meh, its all poor quality stuff anyhow.

A Kalashnikov goes for about $20. The metal shields that the Russian cops use are probably aluminized steel (meaning, about $15 at most)

Really, I'd pay a solid $40 to get my hands on one of those completely clear shields (that they tend to use before the escalate to the full metal shield)

This is squarely a fight for the power to keep the people paying for property tax, water, natural gas, and electricity.

The elites only use the police for as long as they can remain loyal, but just like protestors probably see them as expendable in the greater picture. Army, also useful as a tool - but also expendable.

The smart law enforcement types probably know when to call it quits and abandon their now absent government. IE: That the government funds the army with million dollar tanks, and police with $100 worth of equipment does not usually fool anyone. If the army is expendable, how low on the totem pole is a police officer?

[Toma]

What?!?!?!?

The US and CIA are funding and promoting unrest??

No Way!!!

[Toma]

This is pretty serious though, as we are IMO about to see a CIA versus Russia show down in Ukraine.

[ZenOps]

My guess for next step would be sabre rattling with tanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-1



Send a few hundred BMP-1, 2 or 3's in the city streets as a show of force. Along with a water cannon contingent for the nasty molotov throwers. Strictly for show, no shooting, yet.

If they send any more than that, the streets will absolutely collapse under the weight. There is also no need for anything larger than 73mm, I'm pretty sure they would try to take the city more or less intact - so a pure infantry fighting vehicle like the BMP instead of more devastating measures.

Demand capitulation of any remaining police force. Detain dissenters, but absorb leadership and refit police as weak infantry.

Wait for response from Obama admin.

But not before monday.

[Toma]

Don't forget.... this was all started by the CIA and others with the "Orange Revolution" way back to begin with.

Ukraine/Russian border is second biggest in EU. TONS of Ukrainians work in Russia, and make the commute.

Ukraine's unemployment rate is 8%, and destroys the EU's ~20% (official number is 12.1%.). Eurozone is a central bankers heaven, and is doomed to fail, as we see with the economies it has destroyed.

Since it is directly on the Russian border, this is a economic, security, and political matter for the Russians, and they will NOT let some feeble warnings stop them. Western control of Ukraine would mean NATO bases on Russia's border. Russia wont allow that anymore than the US would allow Russian bases on their border.
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