Calgary Cabs - Research + Emails

[Env-Consultant]

Hey guys,

After the whole puking in cabs discussion up there were a pile of people (myself included) complaining about the number of cabs /wait times in this City. I know CBC has touched on this before, but I took it upon myself to do a little research - what I found is nothing short of disgusting. I'm emailing the numbers I found to MADD, CBC/different news agencies, and the City of Calgary. If Calgary wants to be a big, major city, they're welcome to grow up and start making the necessary changes. It's absolutely disgusting that in 2013, we are running "have a safe way home" and "if you drink, don't drive" ads, yet we have the nearly the same number of cabs in this city that we did in 1986.

My sources include news websites, Wikipedia, and government websites. I did this this morning really quickly, so please don't bitch about the sources/numbers too hard - I know they aren't perfect, but they give you a damn good idea about what's going on here.

Cabs in Calgary in 1986 - 1311
Population of Calgary in 1986 - ~650,000
Number of persons/cab 1986 - 495

Cabs in Calgary in 2013 - 1466
Population of Calgary in 2013 - ~1,150,000
Number of persons/cab- 784

They claim they are now running double shifts, whereas in 1986 they weren't, but I call bullshit on that. If you look at the number of cabs/person compared to other cities, something is definitely wrong here in Calgary.

Cabs in Chicago 2013 - 6657
Population in Chicago 2013 - ~2,700,000
Number of persons/cab- 405 (48% lower than CGY)

Cabs in Boston 2013 - 1625
Population in Boston 2013 - ~650,000
Number of persons/cab - 400 (49% lower than CGY)

Cabs in Montreal 2013 - 4445
Population in Montreal 2013 - ~1,900,000
Number of persons/cab - 427 (45% lower than CGY)

Cabs in Ottawa 2012 - 1300
Population in Ottawa 2012 - ~900,000
Number of persons/cab - 692 (12% lower than CGY) - really bad here too.



I have no idea why the number of Cabs in Calgary needs to be limited so severely. Most of the articles I read state that the cab companies are putting pressure on the City to limit the number of cabs - well no shit! If that isn't some anti-competition, complete bullshit, I don't know what is. This would be like me somehow forcing oil companies to only be able to hire x number of consultants, resulting in a monopoly on the work me and the other existing consultants have. To me, it sounds like somebody has their hand in the cookie jar....

And they wonder why the service is shit/cabbies are scamming people? It's like the cell phone providers here, when there is nearly zero competition, do you know how many fucks you have to give about your customers? That's right, zero.

**I understand surrounding populations may affect the number of cabs. I did the best I could with what I had on a Sunday morning.


Edit: Sent an email to Nenshi, MADD Canada, CTV, Global, and CBC. I moved to Calgary 4 years ago and have put up with their horrible cab service long enough. Hopefully we can do something about it.

Email:

Hi MADD, News Agencies, and the City of Calgary,

I am a member of an online forum based in Calgary and we were recently discussing cabs possibly charging people for puking in their cabs. I completely agree with a puking fine, but our discussion quickly turned to something much darker. The lack of cabs in the City of Calgary. My forum post is below and begins with "Hey Guys"- I won't apologize for some of the strong language, it's how I feel and it's how some of us talk on the forum to convey our messages.

We run ads, tell our friends, and beg our children to find safe ways home, yet in Calgary, when I (and everybody else in the city) try to find a safe way home, cab lines are almost always jammed, or if you do get through, the wait times are absurd (1 hour+).

MADD - would you be interested in doing a YouTube/advertising video where we find people outside of bars, etc. who are looking for cabs in this city? If you've ever been in this situation, you already know what kind of footage we'll get. You already know how many people will end up driving home drunk due to lack of cabs in this city. I don't condone it or agree with it and would never do it, but that is one of the realities of what is going on in this city. No availability of safe rides = drunk drivers everywhere.

To the City, how can you honestly justify the low number of cabs here (see numbers below)? How is it possible that cab companies are pushing the City of Calgary around and determining the number of cabs in this city? Does somebody there have their hand in the cookie jar/getting kickbacks under the table? To me, if that isn't going on, I am dumbfounded as to how this cab issue can possibly be present.

Let's change things - let's get more cabs on the road (at least 2 x more) - let's get drunk drivers off the roads. By doubling the number of cabs in this city, you'll improve the lives of your citizens drastically and save a lot of people. Instead of contributing to the problem, doesn't the City have an obligation to be part of solving the problem?

[Supa Dexta]

How many are in Edmonton, its the closest city to compare to.. Hate it all you like you're virtually identical.

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
How many are in Edmonton, its the closest city to compare to.. Hate it all you like you're virtually identical.

Still looking for Edmonton. They had some Vehicle for Hire group at the City, but it looks like it disbanded last year. If I find the stats for Edmonton, I'll post them.

What did you mean by:

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Hate it all you like you're virtually identical.

[Supa Dexta]

People on here like to distance themselves from Edm any chance they get. But when comparing another city to calgary, you wont find another one closer.

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
People on here like to distance themselves from Edm any chance they get. But when comparing another city to calgary, you wont find another one closer.

I grew up about 45 minutes SE of Edmonton. I enjoy both cities and see the pros/cons of each - not looking to get into a discussion on that in this thread.

I do know, however, that cabs in Edmonton are brutally lacking as well.

I found this:

http://metronews.ca/news/edmonton/30...y-taxi-plates/

There were 1185 cabs in Edmonton in 2011.
Edmonton had a population of 812,201 in 2011.
Resulting in 685 persons/cab (~13% lower than CGY) - still terrible.

[baygirl]

I read in the Herald this week that cabbies spent up to a third of their time working outside the dispatch system. This was in July during Stampede. One cabbie interviewed offered the suggestion of hiring more dispatchers to cut back on busy signals.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...056/story.html

And I see it every night at work, regular cabbies who come in and spend up to an hour wandering around, every night.

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by baygirl
I read in the Herald this week that cabbies spent up to a third of their time working outside the dispatch system. This was in July during Stampede. One cabbie interviewed offered the suggestion of hiring more dispatchers to cut back on busy signals.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...056/story.html

And I see it every night at work, regular cabbies who come in and spend up to an hour wandering around, every night.

I'm not exactly sure what was going on here with them working outside of the dispatch system - I suspect, as the article suggests, that cabbies were just hopping around all over downtown, collecting a shitload of money and just picking up people that were waving them down. Does that sound right? I understand why they'd do that over making trips, say to the far reaches of the city, but that still doesn't address the fact that there are way too many people in this city for the number of cabs.

When you say they're wandering around for an hour every night, where/what area is that in and does that include weekends? I suspect that might be a product of the company they work for telling them where they need to be and when or a result of somebody not being able to figure out where the demand is in this city. Maybe the dispatchers are screwing them a bit, but the numbers don't lie. Even when I get through to a dispatcher, how it it possible the wait time is 1 hour + on a regular basis? To me, that doesn't reflect 50+ cab drivers sitting around waiting for calls - it reflects a lack of cabs in this city.

I don't care if a cab company makes 90% of their money on a Saturday and barely breaks even during the rest of the week; the fact of the matter is that the cab companies in this city are controlling the market to create an unnecessary shortage during peak times. It's disgusting. Like I said in the puking fines thread, any US city I've visited in the last 5 years (PHX, BOS, CHI, LV), I've never waited more than 5 minutes for a cab, even at 3:00 a.m. right after the bars shut down. Do their cabbies likely sit around during the week with little to do? Yes. Do I care? No. I shouldn't be responsible to subsidize a company by allowing them to manipulate the market. Controlling competition (i.e. number of cars), results in nothing but poor customer service, little to no availability, and inefficiency. Basically cabs in Calgary can provide as shitty service as they want and have no concerns/worries about going under - perfect example of why we have competition laws.

[jdmakkord]

I worked dispatch for a fairly large (at the time) taxi company that shared its office with another. At any given time there was only 1 dispatcher on shift. While I'm sure this isn't the case with checker and associated, it's likely a root cause of the issues at hand. Even during peak times, I worked solo dispatching drivers for both companies. This was all prior to GPS tracking etc. to determine where drivers really were located.

[88CRX]

I placed 62 calls (no joke) between noon and 7pm to checker cabs two weekends ago trying to book a pickup and confirm when they'd be there after they were over half hour late.... I got through to someone on the phone once. Every other time the line was busy. Such a joke.

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by jdmakkord
I worked dispatch for a fairly large (at the time) taxi company that shared its office with another. At any given time there was only 1 dispatcher on shift. While I'm sure this isn't the case with checker and associated, it's likely a root cause of the issues at hand. Even during peak times, I worked solo dispatching drivers for both companies. This was all prior to GPS tracking etc. to determine where drivers really were located.

I don't think it's fair to blame a lack of dispatchers on this problem. I'm sure it contributes to it, but how do you explain a 1 hour + wait time given by a dispatcher? That 1 hour + wait time is due to a backlog of cab pickups - due to a lack of cabs.

It's hard to believe that this is an issue in Alberta's biggest city.

[J-D]

Originally posted by Env-Consultant


I don't think it's fair to blame a lack of dispatchers on this problem. I'm sure it contributes to it, but how do you explain a 1 hour + wait time given by a dispatcher? That 1 hour + wait time is due to a backlog of cab pickups - due to a lack of cabs.

It's hard to believe that this is an issue in Alberta's biggest city.

The best part is when you try and call their dispatch numbers and get nothing but busy signals... so you pay the $1 for #TAXI and get through right away - only to be told it could be 60-90 minutes.

If you're downtown you can usually flag one down, but anywhere else it's an issue.

[ExtraSlow]

The issue with a restricted number of taxi plates is interesting. The City (and livery services dept) created this artificial scarcity by restricting the plates years ago. Please have been buying the plates at ever increasing prices, so now a huge amount of wealth is tied up in those plates. I heard somewhere that each plate is worth over $100,000, so thats over a hundred million dollars of "equity" out there. If the city issues too many plates, the value will crash, and the city could potentially be liable for the loss in value of those plates.

Currently I think the vast majority are owned by brokers or the cab companies themselves, but there are definitely a significant number owned by the actual working-class cabbies themselves.


I do agree that the current system is pretty poor. I refuse to even phone the cab companies, it seems hopeless. I usually walk to a hotel downtown if I need a ride. Seems like the Hyatt has a good supply of cabs even on busy nights.

[Sugarphreak]

..

[FraserB]

How would the city be liable for the price drop if they allowed actual competition?

Unless the somehow got h city to guarantee the value of a medallion?

[Mixalot27]

Originally posted by Env-Consultant
How is it possible that cab companies are pushing the City of Calgary around and determining the number of cabs in this city? Does somebody there have their hand in the cookie jar/getting kickbacks under the table? To me, if that isn't going on, I am dumbfounded as to how this cab issue can possibly be present.

Those are pretty much the questions that I have always wondered about. Is it a kickback type situation? Or are the City decision makers actually afraid to anger this group? You have to admit that they are a pretty vocal group and somewhat fanatical at times in their tactics and ideologies.

The city has taken a pretty anti car stance in the past several years. You would think reasonable access to cabs would be part of this strategy. After all being unable to get a cab in this city is just another barrier to leaving your car at home or even considering going car-less.

[thetransporter]

someone start a company:

people pay to test drive as a passenger, per KM ?

[speedog]

Originally posted by thetransporter
someone start a company:

people pay to test drive as a passenger, per KM ?

What kind of liability insurance would you see this requiring especially considering it would be a commercial venture of some sort?

And what vehicle license plate class would this business venture fit into? Probably 1-55

[FraserB]

There is probably nothing illegal with being charitable and giving someone a ride home. It's not your fault if they forget some money in your car when they leave.

[speedog]

Originally posted by FraserB
There is probably nothing illegal with being charitable and giving someone a ride home. It's not your fault if they forget some money in your car when they leave.

You're spot on here, but the situation gets a bit more complicated when you start throwing in a dispatch system, call center, etc..

And if Revenue Canada and one's insurance company caught wind of one mysteriously and regularly finding money in one's vehicle after giving away charitable rides, I think one might have just a wee bit of explaining to do.

That said, I do believe there just might be a bit of an underground ride system already in place in Calgary and other places where complete strangers offer rides to people waiting at transit stops (or elsewhere) with some sort of exchange of an item of some value for the ride being taken. What complicates things is that there just probably isn't enough of these charitable strangers around when the bars close - many people tend to want to be in bed at those times.

[Env-Consultant]

http://www.ffwdweekly.com/article/ne...cy-group-4356/

Article is from 2009, but fuck me, what a disgusting mess.



Good group of people with some good info!


http://votersfortaxis.ca