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Thread: Heads & cam swap..minus the cam

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    Default Heads & cam swap..minus the cam

    So I've been doing some research on ls1tech/AFR's
    website re: the possibility of swapping my crappy
    98 LS1 heads for a set of AFR 210 CC's or Texas
    Speed ported LS6 heads for a little less money.

    http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=76_77

    http://texas-speed.com/p-1177-prc-st...ted-heads.aspx

    Of course, I would also upgrade my push rods to chromoly hardened and also do LS6 valve springs. This would be for longevity as I'm a big fan of revving past 6 grand.

    The thing is that the 98 - 2000 LS1's came with a bigger cam than 01-02.

    98-00 LS1 dur 202/210 lift .496/.496 w\ 116LSA

    01-02 LS1 dur 198/197 lift .478/.478 w\ 115LSA

    I've heard that you can get 40-50 rwhp out of a good set of heads alone on an LS. I don't want a choppy annoying cam and the associated tuning issues, poor fuel economy etc that comes along with that package. I've done almost all of the bolt on's and I'm thinking that head flow is my next restriction. Plus heads look to be reasonable for me and a friend to install ourselves.

    Some good heads and I should be well over 350 rwhp and around 400 rwtq on a real dyno at our altitude.Plenty of power for me.

    http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...stock-cam.html

    ^^417 rwhp on a dynojet but still! *Also on an IRS GTO
    so more drive train loss than the solid rear in my F Body.



    What do you think?


    Last edited by Hallowed_point; 02-04-2014 at 03:24 PM.

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    There are many cam choices that would be very smooth and make big power over stock. If you are taking the heads off, do the cam. Lots of stock cams like an LS6 or LS7 would be the minimum. A hotcam would be good and easy to tune.

    There are lots of other choices that will make much more power yet retain good daily use. Something in the 222/226 on a 114 ICL would be what I would do.
    Mike
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    07 Mazdaspeed3

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    And if your gonna go that deep I'd upgrade the oil pump too.

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    Originally posted by mikestypes
    There are many cam choices that would be very smooth and make big power over stock. If you are taking the heads off, do the cam. Lots of stock cams like an LS6 or LS7 would be the minimum. A hotcam would be good and easy to tune.

    There are lots of other choices that will make much more power yet retain good daily use. Something in the 222/226 on a 114 ICL would be what I would do.
    I'll have to look more into the specs as I don't want to increase my low rpm torque by too much as we all know how weak the stock 10 bolt is with a 6 speed. With heads only, I could get +2 mpg on the highway and have a ton of high end power plus it would still be reasonably quiet.

    Maybe an LS6 cam would be in order though. That wouldn't be extreme.

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    Originally posted by Offroad
    And if your gonna go that deep I'd upgrade the oil pump too.
    Yeah, I'm thinking I should get the Texas Speed ported pump with double roller timing chain once I get in there.

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    Texas speed 228R: 228R 228/228 .588"/.588" (112 or 114 LSA)
    Texas speed 224R: 224R 224/224 .581"/.581" (112 or 114 lsa)

    Both are the go to cam for the C5 road racers/ Vette forum. Nice low lift keeps the springs happy (though you'd have to upgrade to aftermarket valve springs like the PAC beehives or something). The general rule of thumb for these engines is to keep the lift under .600 and you are okay to rev to the moon for extended periods of time without worry.

    Stock LS6 Cam maybe? 204/218 0.551"/0.547" 117 LSA.

    Ported LS6 243 heads (texas speed) OR GMPP has a killer set of CNC heads that flow really well and are worked by Lingenfelter (so I've been told).
    60cc: GM PN# 88958622
    62cc: GM PN#88958665

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    Originally posted by Hallowed_point


    Yeah, I'm thinking I should get the Texas Speed ported pump with double roller timing chain once I get in there.
    I wouldn't bother with a double roller unless you are planning on making 1000+ rwhp. The stronger C5r single roller has been proven up to those power levels and doesn't require you to modify the timing cover. I would suggest changing the oilpump while you're in there. Make sure you get the higher pressure one though. Not the higher volume one, it has the ability to run the pan dry in a stock setup.

    The cams mentioned above are both good choices, as SideSwipe said you would have to upgrade to at least the PAC 1218s, they're dirt cheap though. Personally, I wouldn't bother tearing everything apart if you are going to only upgrade to an LS6 cam.

    Keep in mind that a lot of the power you will get out of doing heads/cams will come from the tune. If you do this you pretty much have to get it tuned. There are mailorder tunes that are pretty cheap for this kind of thing.

    You mentioned that you were trying to keep things simple. If the most extreme thing you have attempted prior to this is minor bolt ons I would be leery about getting in over your head. Swapping a cam is pretty easy (provided you have the tool to hold the lifters up) but when you start talking about changing the timing chain and heads it would get a little tricky.

    I'm in the middle of building a turbocharged LS2 for my Chevelle so a lot of the research I have done for that is still fresh in my mind, shoot me a PM if you have any questions.
    Last edited by LSChevelle; 02-06-2014 at 07:15 PM.

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by SideSwipe
    Texas speed 228R: 228R 228/228 .588"/.588" (112 or 114 LSA)
    Texas speed 224R: 224R 224/224 .581"/.581" (112 or 114 lsa)

    Both are the go to cam for the C5 road racers/ Vette forum. Nice low lift keeps the springs happy (though you'd have to upgrade to aftermarket valve springs like the PAC beehives or something). The general rule of thumb for these engines is to keep the lift under .600 and you are okay to rev to the moon for extended periods of time without worry.

    Stock LS6 Cam maybe? 204/218 0.551"/0.547" 117 LSA.

    Ported LS6 243 heads (texas speed) OR GMPP has a killer set of CNC heads that flow really well and are worked by Lingenfelter (so I've been told).
    60cc: GM PN# 88958622
    62cc: GM PN#88958665
    [/QUOTE

    Thanks..yeah I would absolutely stick with low lift for longevity. I'm a big Texas Speed fan and those ported as cast 225 CC heads will fit the bill perfectly. They have told me that they could mill them down as well to work perfectly with my stock cam. I'll gain some compression as well due to the smaller combustion chamber. No point in throwing huge heads at a tiny cam.

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    Originally posted by LSChevelle


    I wouldn't bother with a double roller unless you are planning on making 1000+ rwhp. The stronger C5r single roller has been proven up to those power levels and doesn't require you to modify the timing cover. I would suggest changing the oilpump while you're in there. Make sure you get the higher pressure one though. Not the higher volume one, it has the ability to run the pan dry in a stock setup.

    The cams mentioned above are both good choices, as SideSwipe said you would have to upgrade to at least the PAC 1218s, they're dirt cheap though. Personally, I wouldn't bother tearing everything apart if you are going to only upgrade to an LS6 cam.

    Keep in mind that a lot of the power you will get out of doing heads/cams will come from the tune. If you do this you pretty much have to get it tuned. There are mailorder tunes that are pretty cheap for this kind of thing.

    You mentioned that you were trying to keep things simple. If the most extreme thing you have attempted prior to this is minor bolt ons I would be leery about getting in over your head. Swapping a cam is pretty easy (provided you have the tool to hold the lifters up) but when you start talking about changing the timing chain and heads it would get a little tricky.

    I'm in the middle of building a turbocharged LS2 for my Chevelle so a lot of the research I have done for that is still fresh in my mind, shoot me a PM if you have any questions.
    Thanks for all the info. The whole goal with my project is low budget so I don't want to upgrade anything that isn't 100% needed.

    For sure, my car has been tuned by toma @ dynomotive before so I'd stick with him for an adjustment afterwards. I don't trust mail order tunes except maybe Frost off ls1tech but still..too many variables.

    I've been doing research on ls1howto and heads look fairly straight forward. Being the bastard 98 model, I have to also upgrade my valve covers from perimeter to center bolt. Trying to find a way to do that while still keeping my stock PCV configuration.

    You need a build thread my man!

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    Thanks for the input all. I've decided on the Texas Speed 224r on a 114 lsa.
    To support that I will also order: TSP chromoly pushrods, GM LS2 timing chain
    set, TSP ported LS6 oil pump, .650" single beehive springs.

    BUT..before all of that..I think it will be prudent to order/install a Monster
    Clutch package (level 1 450 rwhp/tq capable) along with the Tick adjustable
    master cylinder. No sense in having a blown clutch and crap shifting going on
    with the added power.

    This will come to around 2 grand in parts and I'm waiting to hear back
    from Offroad's GM tech buddy in Salmon Arm to see if his labor price
    meets my budget. Of course, I want to help with the install!

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