New Brake Pads (shop wants to replace entire disc?)

[boarderfatty]

Double Post

[boarderfatty]

400 sounds about right, but at my shop we usually recommend new rotors when we do pads depending on the car. To do a proper brake job new pads must have a new surface, either machined or new. Some cars now a days though come from the factory with so little rotor life that we can machine them, but after machining down to a smooth surface the life left remaining will not match the new set of pads being installed.

Basically you look at what the stock thickness is for the rotor, then the minimal. If the rotor will be less than half life after machining we will recommend new rotors as it stupid having to go in on a separate occasion to replace rotors and pads when the new pad set still has life.

At my shop labour rate is $114.95/hr and we charge 1.2hrs per axle for pads and rotors. so 137.94 for labour

Depending on which wheel option you have the pad and rotor price will vary, for the larger wheel option using a Napa Premium rotor retail is 94.60/rotor, we would charge 79.95 each so 159.90. For Napa premium OE Ceramic pads retail is 94.30/set we would charge 79.95/set

So total would be 377.79 + GST

There are cheaper second line products available but there is the reason that we call the Napa True Stop line True Squeaks, because 90% of the time we use those parts, customers will return complaining about brake noise or dust. Not usually worth the saving $50-80 for the headache. Machining we usually charge $30-$40 to turn a rotor, in a case like this saving $50-80 again might not be worth it if the customer has to return to do pads and rotors prematurely

Edit: This is not a promotion of my shop. My shop is not in Calgary, my shop name is not stated, I am just giving information to hopefully clarify his quote.

[Hallowed_point]

I've heard that the reason shop's want to replace
both pads and rotors at the same time is because
with today's technology in brake pad material, the
rotors do wear more. I did both pads and rotors
when my front's were worn out - no squeaks or
other bs. Little brother cheaped out and just did
pads on his gf's car and man do those brakes feel
sketchy.

Brakes are pretty important..I'd rather spend
a couple more bucks and be 100% sure rather than
running new pads with questionable rotors.

[Dumbass17]

Fair enough, all valid points.

And I agree, brakes are obviously very important. I just wanted to check with fellow beyonders as, like I mentioned, I haven't had brakes replaced in a vehicle in ages.

I will take it to 32nd ave Minute Muffler, based on recommendations ppl have provided here

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Dumbass17
Fair enough, all valid points.

And I agree, brakes are obviously very important. I just wanted to check with fellow beyonders as, like I mentioned, I haven't had brakes replaced in a vehicle in ages.

I will take it to 32nd ave Minute Muffler, based on recommendations ppl have provided here

Good call! MM rocks.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by boarderfatty
400 sounds about right, but at my shop we usually recommend new rotors when we do pads depending on the car. To do a proper brake job new pads must have a new surface, either machined or new. Some cars now a days though come from the factory with so little rotor life that we can machine them, but after machining down to a smooth surface the life left remaining will not match the new set of pads being installed.

Basically you look at what the stock thickness is for the rotor, then the minimal. If the rotor will be less than half life after machining we will recommend new rotors as it stupid having to go in on a separate occasion to replace rotors and pads when the new pad set still has life.

At my shop labour rate is $114.95/hr and we charge 1.2hrs per axle for pads and rotors. so 137.94 for labour

Depending on which wheel option you have the pad and rotor price will vary, for the larger wheel option using a Napa Premium rotor retail is 94.60/rotor, we would charge 79.95 each so 159.90. For Napa premium OE Ceramic pads retail is 94.30/set we would charge 79.95/set

So total would be 377.79 + GST

There are cheaper second line products available but there is the reason that we call the Napa True Stop line True Squeaks, because 90% of the time we use those parts, customers will return complaining about brake noise or dust. Not usually worth the saving $50-80 for the headache. Machining we usually charge $30-$40 to turn a rotor, in a case like this saving $50-80 again might not be worth it if the customer has to return to do pads and rotors prematurely

Edit: This is not a promotion of my shop. My shop is not in Calgary, my shop name is not stated, I am just giving information to hopefully clarify his quote.

Just out of curiosity, are these high end sports cars whose manufacturers don't leave enough rotor to machine? I have just never heard of this being a problem on regular passenger cars, so now it has me wondering. I have a lot of experience with brakes on shitbox cars, and have never encountered a rotor that couldn't be machined after one set of pads, unless it warped for some reason, this sounds more like a shoddy machine shop doing the machining. I think regular pad changes will make rotors last longer and be less likely to warp, letting the pad get too worn, or hot will obviously reduce the rotor life.

Edit, also for people wanting to do it yourself, I paid last week for new pads on my Grand Cherokee:

Purchased at Lordco West Kelowna:

Wagner ThermoQuiet Ceramic -

Front - $72.98
Rear - $76.29 (wtf why more expensive??)

Fluid - $9.12

Machining - $30/pair - $60

$218.39 all taxes included to DIY with machined rotors and a full fluid flush and change. Saved around 50% and it took me about an hour, plus travel time.

[n1zm0]

^yeah DIY for my accord with cheapo parts was about ~$230 for front pads and rotors.

Originally posted by GTS4tw
Just out of curiosity, are these high end sports cars whose manufacturers don't leave enough rotor to machine? I have just never heard of this being a problem on regular passenger cars, so now it has me wondering.

Yeah, I know it's frowned upon to machine crossdrilled/slotted rotors, maybe that's what he meant? (even though I've brought my C/S rotors to the same machine shop that did my flywheel and they didn't have a problem.)

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by n1zm0
^yeah DIY for my accord with cheapo parts was about ~$230 for front pads and rotors.



Yeah, I know it's frowned upon to machine crossdrilled/slotted rotors, maybe that's what he meant? (even though I've brought my C/S rotors to the same machine shop that did my flywheel and they didn't have a problem.)

My price is to do all 4 though, and a fluid change. And I don't really consider Wagner ceramic to be that cheap for a normal vehicle, they are a good pad with very little dust and a long life.

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by n1zm0
^yeah DIY for my accord with cheapo parts was about ~$230 for front pads and rotors.



Yeah, I know it's frowned upon to machine crossdrilled/slotted rotors, maybe that's what he meant? (even though I've brought my C/S rotors to the same machine shop that did my flywheel and they didn't have a problem.)

That's alot Just did my fathers front pads & rotors on a Infiniti I30 for ~$120 and my Explorer for ~150 using semi-decent parts.

[Hallowed_point]

^While you're at it OP, I strongly suggest
you turkey baster your brake reservoir and
cycle fresh DOT 3/Dot ? through until it gets
reasonably clear.Made a big difference on my
brakes that had 14 year old black fluid!

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by G-ZUS


That's alot Just did my fathers front pads & rotors on a Infiniti I30 for ~$120 and my Explorer for ~150 using semi-decent parts.

Originally posted by GTS4tw


My price is to do all 4 though, and a fluid change. And I don't really consider Wagner ceramic to be that cheap for a normal vehicle, they are a good pad with very little dust and a long life.

oops my bad! I meant all around $230 for NAPA low-midgrade pads and rotors.

I remember weighing the cost of even buying brembo C/D rotors for the front and just throwing them out after was still cheaper than OEM. Then I thought to myself, C/D rotors on my DD Accord, I'm not 18 anymore

[Dumbass17]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
^While you're at it OP, I strongly suggest
you turkey baster your brake reservoir and
cycle fresh DOT 3/Dot ? through until it gets
reasonably clear.Made a big difference on my
brakes that had 14 year old black fluid!

Yeah I would but I'm not doing the work myself. I did brakes on my 91 Accord about 10 years ago and don't remember anything other than the caliber was a bitch to get off. I just don't have time/tool/interest in doing it this time around. Plus I am sick.

#excusesmcgee

[boarderfatty]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


Just out of curiosity, are these high end sports cars whose manufacturers don't leave enough rotor to machine? I have just never heard of this being a problem on regular passenger cars, so now it has me wondering. I have a lot of experience with brakes on shitbox cars, and have never encountered a rotor that couldn't be machined after one set of pads, unless it warped for some reason, this sounds more like a shoddy machine shop doing the machining. I think regular pad changes will make rotors last longer and be less likely to warp, letting the pad get too worn, or hot will obviously reduce the rotor life.

It is really not a good idea to to try and machine cross drilled rotors. I know some places will attempt them, but they seem to get damaged from machining regularly as well. Same goes for slotted, but not as problematic as cross drilled.

When I say newer vehicles have less rotor life I mean on an older car the difference between a new rotor thickness and discard thickness was usually closer to 2.5-3mm, newer vehicles are more in the 1.5-2mm range, so that means your rotors will hit the discard mark in less milage and also you have less room to machine them. Lets say you run through a set of pads in 80,000km, you have worn the rotors down by just over 1mm, so you machine down to 1.25mm for a clean surface, that leaves you 20 to 30% left on the rotor. chances are you will wear out the rotor before you wear out the new pad set. Also with decent aftermarket pads, they will have a more severe compound for better braking performance, but will also wear the rotors faster.

I say this though as a generalization some older vehicles will have less rotor life, some newer ones will have more, but in general newer vehicles have less usable thickness, you have to do your research. any service advisor should be able to do this, but is easier to just suggest new rotors. They could also just be saying they only do new rotors to avoid possible problems machining. Your rotors upon initial inspection may seem machinable, but if a problem occurs machining, or a problem is discovered after, you just wasted time machining that you can not bill and then have to call the customer back and tell them that their bill will be more because they need new rotors.

Realistically what a shop pays versus what the retail price they or a part store will sell it for is on a rotor is a difference of $20-30, so the money a shop makes off selling new rotors vs turning old ones is the same. But where it is beneficial to the shop is customer satisfaction. New rotors with more life are less likely to wapr since they are thicker and avoid pulsation. New rotors are less likely to have flaws in the missed in machining that can create noise or poor braking performance (aka heat scoring)If there is a problem machining the rotor, you dont have to raise the price of the quote and get the work re approved (customers hate getting told your brake job will be $300 then get called later saying the price went up) Lastly the rotor is going to last the whole life of the new pad and avoid doing brakes again prematurely. All this leads to customers coming back less, remaining satisfied, and the shop not losing money doing free comeback work

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by boarderfatty


It is really not a good idea to to try and machine cross drilled rotors. I know some places will attempt them, but they seem to get damaged from machining regularly as well. Same goes for slotted, but not as problematic as cross drilled.

When I say newer vehicles have less rotor life I mean on an older car the difference between a new rotor thickness and discard thickness was usually closer to 2.5-3mm, newer vehicles are more in the 1.5-2mm range, so that means your rotors will hit the discard mark in less milage and also you have less room to machine them. Lets say you run through a set of pads in 80,000km, you have worn the rotors down by just over 1mm, so you machine down to 1.25mm for a clean surface, that leaves you 20 to 30% left on the rotor. chances are you will wear out the rotor before you wear out the new pad set. Also with decent aftermarket pads, they will have a more severe compound for better braking performance, but will also wear the rotors faster.

I say this though as a generalization some older vehicles will have less rotor life, some newer ones will have more, but in general newer vehicles have less usable thickness, you have to do your research. any service advisor should be able to do this, but is easier to just suggest new rotors. They could also just be saying they only do new rotors to avoid possible problems machining. Your rotors upon initial inspection may seem machinable, but if a problem occurs machining, or a problem is discovered after, you just wasted time machining that you can not bill and then have to call the customer back and tell them that their bill will be more because they need new rotors.

Realistically what a shop pays versus what the retail price they or a part store will sell it for is on a rotor is a difference of $20-30, so the money a shop makes off selling new rotors vs turning old ones is the same. But where it is beneficial to the shop is customer satisfaction. New rotors with more life are less likely to wapr since they are thicker and avoid pulsation. New rotors are less likely to have flaws in the missed in machining that can create noise or poor braking performance (aka heat scoring)If there is a problem machining the rotor, you dont have to raise the price of the quote and get the work re approved (customers hate getting told your brake job will be $300 then get called later saying the price went up) Lastly the rotor is going to last the whole life of the new pad and avoid doing brakes again prematurely. All this leads to customers coming back less, remaining satisfied, and the shop not losing money doing free comeback work

Awesome reply! Thank you for clarifying, and yes this does make sense for a shop to approach things this way. I have not had much experience working on new cars, I like to stick to the ones that I can wrench on myself. They used to design rotors to pretty much last the life of the car haha. Making them have so little room for wear seems like a wasteful way to design brakes, but so many things these days are throw-away, and more expensive to keep than replace. Makes me sad. I can understand the machining being a hassle, I have had rotors which were too warped to machine and driving back and forth to the shop just to find that out was a pain in the ass.

Too bad you aren't a Beyond sponsor, you should PM me your shop name. It isn't often you get clear and concise answers to a question

[boarderfatty]

Like I said though, do your research, and be a smart consumer, the reason rotors for newer vehicles are getting cheap is partially because they are just pound offs but mainly because they are now meant to be replaced with every pad set. Places that turn rotors like Part source will machine as long as they are above the discard point. if a rotor has a new thickness of 26mm and a discard thickness of 24.5mm as long as they can have above that 24.5mm they will do it, so they will machine it down to 24.6 or 24.7 if they have to charge you, and you have about 6% rotor life left to match up with your new pads. I did hear that the '15 RAM 1500 does come with an OE rotor now that does not require machining or replacement for 400,000miles

As far as being a sponsor, like I said I am not even in Calgary, plus most of the time I dont want to deal with 90% of forum members. you get the occasional good one, mut most of them are cheap, question everything you do, tell you how to do your job, and look for a huge discount because they are member on a website. I prefer to remain anonymous on the internet and try and answer a few questions here and there with helpful replies.

[Dumbass17]

I got new pads and rotors today, installed, at brake check for about $450 all said and done. Meh, whatever, it's only money.