math taught the old way = better results.

[J-hop]

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Attachment 83756

To be fair, the new math technique is used mentally, if I write something down it's old math (or a calculator haa)

How is that old math though. I was taught both ways, teachers taught many different ways and just said do what is easiest for you but show your work regardless. I graduated years before this supposed switch.


I do think memorization is stupid though. In like grade 2 I memorized 99x99=9801 to impress my friends but I didn’t comprehend it. But that’s not old vs new, that’s just lazy.

[Tik-Tok]

Like driftsniffer I always use that in my head, but "old" math on paper. No one taught me the "new math", I just did it on my own as it seemed faster. I think old math should still be taught in schools, and if a kid is smart enough they'll figure out the new math on their own.

[J-hop]

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Like driftsniffer I always use that in my head, but "old" math on paper. No one taught me the "new math", I just did it on my own as it seemed faster. I think old math should still be taught in schools, and if a kid is smart enough they'll figure out the new math on their own.

Yea I just watched the CTV vid phoexs posted. To me sounds like a bunch of parents that don’t actually understand math and need one set of rules they can memorize. Blaming standardized test scores going down on the various methods being taught is laughable IMO considering if you actually look at all the methods you’re using the exact same basic principles, only differences is level of practicability and/or efficiency

I like at the beginning of the vid they say “do these all make sense to you”, I was waiting for some obscure way of doing math problems and saw none.........

[dirtsniffer]

I think the thing is they should stick to the one way 95% of people get so they can learn it well and learn it faster than trying to quickly teach a bunch of ways that most people understand, seems like a waste of time when they could be moving on to other topics. Jack of all trades - master of none, sorta thing.

[J-hop]

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I think the thing is they should stick to the one way 95% of people get so they can learn it well and learn it faster than trying to quickly teach a bunch of ways that most people understand, seems like a waste of time when they could be moving on to other topics. Jack of all trades - master of none, sorta thing.

My arguement is the trade is the same it’s just whether you choke up on the hammer or not. It literally is the exact same fundemental principles.

In my eyes the benefit of learning multiple ways is that people don’t just focus in on memorizing a method and ignore the fundemental principles.

How many people do you see getting through school purely memorizing rules and never actually understanding the principles?

The fact is in today’s day and age memorizing a method is a waste of time, computers do that for you and are not falliable in the same way a human is. Understanding the underlying principles is what’s key. Which is what I think the “new method” is trying to get at.

While I don’t think the drop in test scores has anything to do with whether kids are being taught the right things if I assume that theory this might be a good indicator that kids haven’t been getting taught the fundamentals right at any point and now that the teaching is less focused on memorizing a specific method that is really showing through....

[rage2]

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Blaming standardized test scores going down on the various methods being taught is laughable

Those methods aren't being "taught". Kids are supposed to be discovering those methods. Teachers aren't teaching those methods, they're merely providing clues towards those methods, or showing an example of them using that method and expect the kids to discover those methods. There is no focus at all, so kids at early ages are "discovering" multiplication by literally drawing hundreds of objects and counting them to show work for large multiplication questions.

Again, this isn't old math vs new math (which is just math TBH), it's teaching vs discovery.

[Mitsu3000gt]

What I hated most about math was that calculators weren't allowed for complicated math that nobody ever does by hand, where in the real world EVERYONE would just get a calculator or computer to do it for them, especially because since if it actually mattered (i.e. for an engineering purpose) they would need it verified anyhow. And that interactions textbook was the bane of my existence haha. Come to think of it, probably 90% of my schooling outside elementary (developing social skills basically) does not apply to the real world.

I was in a couple math classes where over half the class failed (the entire course, not just a test), one was university level calculus. Students complained that it was the teacher's fault (honestly it was), the school agreed, and everyone got bumped a full 2 letter grades.

[J-hop]

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Those methods aren't being "taught". Kids are supposed to be discovering those methods. Teachers aren't teaching those methods, they're merely providing clues towards those methods, or showing an example of them using that method and expect the kids to discover those methods. There is no focus at all, so kids at early ages are "discovering" multiplication by literally drawing hundreds of objects and counting them to show work for large multiplication questions.

Again, this isn't old math vs new math (which is just math TBH), it's teaching vs discovery.

Yea I guess I don’t fully understand the problem as it’s always been presented as this method vs that method. Probably by others that have the same ignorance to the problem.

My question is though, what are the parents doing in all of this? I get there are unique situations where parents work 2 jobs and barely see their kids. But my parents always did homework with me and explained the principles. I get that you pay for school so you expect them to actually be taught, but at the same time your duties as a parent don’t (shouldn’t) end at putting food on the table...

Edit: actually brings back bad memories, got forced into Kumon, was getting worked over in timed tests by kids half my age. Always got the minimum Kumon dollars

[rage2]

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Yea I guess I don’t fully understand the problem as it’s always been presented as this method vs that method. Probably by others that have the same ignorance to the problem.

My question is though, what are the parents doing in all of this? I get there are unique situations where parents work 2 jobs and barely see there kids. But my parents always did homework with me and explained the principles. I get that you pay for school so you expect them to actually be taught, but at the same time your duties as a parent don’t (shouldn’t) end at putting food on the table...

Edit: actually brings back bad memories, got forced into Kumon, was getting worked over in timed tests by kids half my age. Always got the minimum Kumon dollars

Dunno about others, but we make time for our kids even with our busy work schedule for homework. Doesn't seem to be a huge problem. I think we're lucky though as the ages are staggered out so it's only a kid at a time. In this specific case, we ignored the recommendations of the teachers and taught basic math foundations such as multiplication tables which seems to have helped him "discover" math better than others. The bigger problem is the fact that the curriculum was recommending parents not teach kids their way, so I'm glad this thread existed that reinforced our choice to go against the grain at the time.

Our kindergartener spends 1/2 day at my mom's, and she's teaching him to speak Chinese as well as math fundamentals, counting up to 1000 and other basic numbers crap. Lucky for us he'll start back to basics math next year, no more discovery math bullshit.

[J-hop]

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Dunno about others, but we make time for our kids even with our busy work schedule for homework. Doesn't seem to be a huge problem. I think we're lucky though as the ages are staggered out so it's only a kid at a time. In this specific case, we ignored the recommendations of the teachers and taught basic math foundations such as multiplication tables which seems to have helped him "discover" math better than others. The bigger problem is the fact that the curriculum was recommending parents not teach kids their way, so I'm glad this thread existed that reinforced our choice to go against the grain at the time.

Our kindergartener spends 1/2 day at my mom's, and she's teaching him to speak Chinese as well as math fundamentals, counting up to 1000 and other basic numbers crap. Lucky for us he'll start back to basics math next year, no more discovery math bullshit.

Not math related but I do wish my parents had put me in a situation to learn a second language. I took French for 12 years but am barely functional beyond the absolute basics. Seems like all my foreign friends that were forced to pick up a second language are able to learn additional languages as an adult while I am struggling trying to get fluent in French still haha

[HiTempguy1]

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Come to think of it, probably 90% of my schooling outside elementary (developing social skills basically) does not apply to the real world.

I would say 75%+ of all of my combined education has had zero relevance on my ability to be a productive member of society.

Education in North America is broken. It's way too generalized. I didn't give a shit about poetry in high school, and I still don't, and it's not poetry that gave me a love of art and literature. Just as an example, but fuck me did I have to waste a lot of time learning (in a very poor, non-helpful manner) about poetry when I could have been doing something interesting like the coding or 3d modeling I was teaching myself at home on my own with zero money and a busted computer I had to pirate software for.

Schooling should be much more focused, with specific outcomes tied to making functional, useful people to society. Those who want to go their own way, will go their own way anyways so there is zero point in dumbing the system down and generalizing it for them.

Edit-
As for the parent thing, Beyond is not typical demographics. My parents both are very "street smart" individuals. My mother went to university right out of high school, then came out here when she was 20. You didn't need a university education to work in an executive manner in Alberta in the early 80's, most people's mind were blown that she had simply gone to university. My father grew up on a farm, and then became a power engineer (again, in the 80's).

By grade 8, we were being taught advanced enough math that realistically neither of them were going to be of any help. Earlier grades, absolutely they could. But they also recognized that education was the #1 thing of importance for their kids, so they made sure we took care of it. Most families aren't like that. You watch the news and wonder where the hell parents are in their kids lives (like the girls who were going to kill a classmate in grade 6, slit her throat, and drink her blood?!) Well the answer is they aren't there in a meaningful way.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[max_boost]

more life skills should be taught in school

[90_Shelby]

Where do you find one of these tests that 40% failed? I can’t recall what would be on a grade 9 math test.

[ercchry]

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Where do you find one of these tests that 40% failed? I can’t recall what would be on a grade 9 math test.

I think they would be referencing the provincial exam (grade 6, 9 and 12)

[ZenOps]

I've got no problem with discovery math, but it should be a specialization - not a basic core concept.

I don't expect an elementary schoolkid to understand LZW compression algos, but I do expect them to know the difference between a quarter (1/4) and a nickel (1/20) If they lose that basic ability, they will be screwed for every real transaction they ever do in life. Realistically they won't even be able to calculate if landing a singular man on the moon is possible using 2 million pounds of jetfuel. Or how much fuel is needed to make a profit on a $140 per ton wheat harvest.

2 shillings and a six pence = Half crown. 12 inches = foot. An eight of weed = 3.5 grams. One ton of soybeans = 2000 pounds, one tonne of soybeans = 2204 pounds. You know, make sure you don't get ripped off, basic maths.

[suntan]

Everybody should read The Math Myth.

Most people need only arithmetic.

Almost all math is useless unless taught for specific occupations.

[CokerRat]

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Everybody should read The Math Myth.

Most people need only arithmetic.

Almost all math is useless unless taught for specific occupations.

Good op-ed with the opposite point of view: https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...h-myth/485852/

[suntan]

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Good op-ed with the opposite point of view: https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...h-myth/485852/

She learned the formula for compound interest, which isn't even math (psst... it's still arithmetic) and therefore everybody should learn differentials?

She doesn't even know what math is.

How common is the usage of polynomials in everyday life?

[Amysicle]

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