math taught the old way = better results.

[quick_scar]

ignore

[suntan]

I know both families.

The boy does fine. He's pretty smart, but everybody hates him because he's a total asshole.

The girl... I'm not sure anything can help her at this point. She's been at Renert for months now, even the "old way" isn't helping her.

Also my kids (and many others) have been doing just fine. My oldest learned to add in binary because they finally brought up the concept of bases in primary school.

[mazdavirgin]

Rote based learning is why people get epically curb stomped once they hit university level math or physics.

[suntan]

Pretty much yeah.

[rage2]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Rote based learning is why people get epically curb stomped once they hit university level math or physics.

I agree, but I don't think discovery based learning at such a young age is effective either. That's where a lot of kids are struggling.

It needs to be a good balance and transition as kids get older, but that's tough too because kids progress at different rates. Maybe home schooling is the answer lol.

[suntan]

Originally posted by 98brg2d
I had a math prof who decided to show me a bit of the counting theory research he was doing, very similar to this new math and the crux of the problem is that the old way is not the fastest and most accurate way of doing things in your head and once you ingrain them through repetition it becomes very hard to learn new counting algorithms. I was taught the old ways and graduated engineering but almost everyone I knew at uni used alternate counting methods for multi, div, adding and subtracting in order to get problems done faster. These methods were not taught but you needed to figure them out in order to be effective. Some I have forgotten, like alternates for long division that are algorithm intensive but very quick once you know them and use less lines of work than long division. A lot of them stem from reducing lines of code when doing heavy computations, think how slow your FEA would run if it used old math counting theory.

Yeah I also do math the "new way", which I learned decades ago because adding:

0xAE09 + 0x5432 using base 10 shortcuts doesn't actually work.

[suntan]

Originally posted by rage2

I agree, but I don't think discovery based learning at such a young age is effective either. That's where a lot of kids are struggling.

It needs to be a good balance and transition as kids get older, but that's tough too because kids progress at different rates. Maybe home schooling is the answer lol.

But the old way taught everything in the abstract. I thought primary school math was hideously easy, but I saw most of my classmates struggle with virtually everything.

Fuck by the time I got to university and took that first year differential calculus course, it was immediately obvious that most of the students had not a fucking clue about math concepts. And the failure rate was something like 90% - I think six of us actually passed in a class that was initially 70.

And another thing, many countries teach much higher level math in primary school than here in Canada.

[legendboy]

Without reading the whole thread:

I have been teaching my grade 3 daughter (at home) to stack numbers and printed off a 7x7 multiplication table at home.
Teaching this way intuitively teaches division.

She has been coming home with math homework that doesn't make logical sense (to me) how they are suppose to work thru the problems the way they are being told to.
They need and entire page just to show their work using this "applied" (or whatever they call it) type math work for one simple problem.

She is a math whiz at this point, helping the other kids in her class understand what they are trying to do. (my genes )

I don't think kids are a dumb as the cbe thinks they are (maybe esl kids .)

If your kid is struggling, get extra help just like we had to do in the "old days" lol

[ZenOps]

My racially charged theory:

Asians are better at memorization, as the language has been based on thousands of characters for thousands of years. Its then natural to memorize a multiplication table.

European languages tend to be a mix of things like 26 characters, which does not favour memorization as much. Thus, they have greater difficulty with memorization math.

But as they hit university math, things change. That usually when they start introducing math that is based on things like sine curves, and tangents. Those who had difficulty with memorization math, may find graphical, and curve math much easier. Europeans who did not completely flunk out of memorizational math do tend to do better here.

What I also tend to find: Those who master memorizational math rarely find a good use for curve math. Why would you bother to extrapolate a strength shear resistance curve, when you could just do a random sampling of 8 to 10 direct math graphing points and extrapolate an estimation? Its much more practical.

The problem with curve math, is that you don't really get an "answer" in numerical terms. You get an answer like, the 90th percentile length on a fractal curve 19 times out of 20.

Old math is by far more practical. If you don't master *old math* you will never be able to balance a chequebook or understand why minimum wage will probably be $160 per hour by year 2055. By teaching this "new math" those who brains are wired to the 26 character alphabet may have better test scores more "A+", but they also - may be easier to manipulate as they no longer understand basic concepts like inflation.

Side note: Greece was the birthplace of the modern english alphabet. Lets see how well they did in basic chequebook math shall we? Which is a whole 'nother conspiracy.

'The most powerful force in the universe is compound interest' - Albert Einstein

[ZenOps]

I'd like to know if this "discovery math" is degrading other memorizational skills - like typing.

I remember learning typing on a keyboard that had pieces of tape over all the letters so that you could not see them. This is pretty much the accepted way to learn how to type properly (you cannot look at the keyboard itself, but for a little while, you can look at a template above a computer screen) After a while, usually two or three weeks they take away the template, and they "throw you out of the nest"

I flew right away, and was pretty quick to get to 90 words per minute, and then 110 words per minute. I was also taught on the old style math system of course.

This new method of math learning just seems to be like a kid randomly smashing a keyboard and seeing the results, and then trying to figure it out (reverse engineer it). I'm not sure its the best way to teach a child either.

BTW: Nowadays, its just far quicker and easier for me to type than to speak.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by suntan
But the old way taught everything in the abstract. I thought primary school math was hideously easy, but I saw most of my classmates struggle with virtually everything.

Fuck by the time I got to university and took that first year differential calculus course, it was immediately obvious that most of the students had not a fucking clue about math concepts. And the failure rate was something like 90% - I think six of us actually passed in a class that was initially 70.

And another thing, many countries teach much higher level math in primary school than here in Canada.

A levels in memorization math for me and of course:

I did horribly in Calculus. Really didn't understand the questions, nevermind the answers. It was like: If you throw a curveball at 70 mph, how many ducks in the crowd are quacking when you throw a strike? Why the heck are you even calculating this curve?

It was far too abstract for me, like calculating a colour curve from purple to mauve.. I'm pretty sure it would be a good calculus question, lol.

I always hated it when a math teacher would say. Ok now, lets just randomly throw this into the equation and see what happens! Yay for randomness!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...lion/27148083/

[M.alex]

I feel bad for the kids doing math today - my degree is in statistics and actuarial science, I'm basically a financial engineer and half the time i look at their problems and how they're expected to work towards solving them I'm like da fuk?

I don't see what the problem with the rote way is given the whole damn professional world learned it that way and is doing just fine today.

[rage2]

bump!

Alberta's getting dumber.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...al-malpractice

At the bottom of the triangle now.


» Click image for larger version

[suntan]

Might as well provide an update on the families.

Boy goes to the Renert private school now. He's still an a-hole, and Renert's math teaching goes way beyond rote learning.

Girl was diagnosed with a learning disability. They sent her to a TLC school where she did no better and in fact got her ass stomped even harder because only Indian parents put their kids into TLC schools. Also her sister did just fine at "regular" school, so there was their big clue right there that maybe it wasn't the world and it was them.

[thetransporter]

i do know the modern school system math feels overly complicated its like they do it on purpose.

[rage2]

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Has anybody actually proven a connection between this changed curriculum and lower grades? Did they also happen to change standardized tests at the same time? Didn't they recently change report cards to not have grades on them, or some such bullshit?

I dunno. I feel like kids are smarter than people are treating them and they'll figure out math with even the smallest push in the right direction.

Bump.

Grade 9 math, 40.6% failed, and that's AFTER lowering the pass bar to 42%

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...il-math-in-cbe

The province says it sets the cut-off scores below 50 per cent to ensure more students achieve acceptable standards on tests that are more difficult.

Yea, we officially have a generation of fucking stupid kids.

[HiTempguy1]

This news blew my fucking mind. Half of kids FAIL a course? What in the actual fuck?!

If I ever have kids, I'm still thinking private school.

[The Cosworth]

Man I remember in Gr 9 getting like 75% or something on my provincial, my b**** of a teacher hated me (feeling was mutual) and she recommended I go into the applied stream. I challenged it and went into pure then Math 31. If 40% of people are failing Gr 9, how's high school math going? Ugh.

[rage2]

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Man I remember in Gr 9 getting like 75% or something on my provincial, my b**** of a teacher hated me (feeling was mutual) and she recommended I go into the applied stream. I challenged it and went into pure then Math 31. If 40% of people are failing Gr 9, how's high school math going? Ugh.

Future engineers building our bridges is all I can think about haha.

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This news blew my fucking mind. Half of kids FAIL a course? What in the actual fuck?!

If I ever have kids, I'm still thinking private school.

Not even a course. Failed a standardized test. Math has been trending poorly here since discover math was introduced. I think they've FINALLY realized they're wrong, and rolling out old math next year.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...on-keyboarding

Which makes reading this thread from start to finish quite funny. So, no need for private school, things are being "fixed". Against the curriculum, we made our oldest learn multiplication tables and core math fundamentals at home. He's picking up stuff no problems even under this discover math program.

[The Cosworth]

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Future engineers building our bridges is all I can think about haha.

What I am most worried about is I am going to have to hire these guys. The work ethic is already ridiculous (I know I am sounding old but it is true). Good help is already hard to find. :'(