Guy Threatens To Kill Me Over His Website

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I actually totally agree with you if Mar had a contract in place

If they agreed on $100 then he did have a contract in place. the OP is kind of ambiguous about if it was exactly $100 or "around $100" though.

[A790]

No dude, I don't buy it. An agreement is an agreement and the buyer changed the terms of the deal after the work was completed. I'd have done the same thing.

[Disoblige]

But why would you take his $60 and remove all the work you did? You should remove 40% of the work and leave the work 60% complete, not take everything off. He'll still be pissed off, but you can just be like "Well, you paid me 60% of our agreed price, so I gave you in return 60% worth of work".

[Mar]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


If they agreed on $100 then he did have a contract in place. the OP is kind of ambiguous about if it was exactly $100 or "around $100" though.

I don't remember exactly, it was somewhere around $90 - $120.

[A790]

Originally posted by Disoblige
But why would you take his $60 and remove all the work you did? You should remove 40% of the work and leave the work 60% complete, not take everything off. He'll still be pissed off, but you can just be like "Well, you paid me 60% of our agreed price, so I gave you in return 60% worth of work".

If it was a Wordpress plugin compatibiltiy issue chances are good that a single fix resolves the issue across the board. How do you "undo 40%" of that?

I mean, I'm trying to understand where some of you guys are coming from, but I don't get it.

As a SEO/developer/IM person, I receive e-mails/calls weekly with people asking me to work for either slave wages or for free. I routinely get people that seem to think they shouldn't pay the whole amount we agreed to, or that they are entitled to some kind of discount for some ridiculous reason, etc.

The bottom line here is they had an agreed on price and the buyer decided not to pay it. The buyer could have decided before or during production to try to renegotiate, but instead he waited until after. That isn't the kind of person who wants to be reasonable, that's the kind of person who wants to try and take advantage of you. And the responses here, from people who apparently have no issue bending over and accepting that kind of abuse, are why they keep doing it and getting away with it.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by A790

If it was a Wordpress plugin compatibiltiy issue chances are good that a single fix resolves the issue across the board. How do you "undo 40%" of that?

I mean, I'm trying to understand where some of you guys are coming from, but I don't get it.

As a SEO/developer/IM person, I receive e-mails/calls weekly with people asking me to work for either slave wages or for free. I routinely get people that seem to think they shouldn't pay the whole amount we agreed to, or that they are entitled to some kind of discount for some ridiculous reason, etc.

The bottom line here is they had an agreed on price and the buyer decided not to pay it. The buyer could have decided before or during production to try to renegotiate, but instead he waited until after. That isn't the kind of person who wants to be reasonable, that's the kind of person who wants to try and take advantage of you. And the responses here, from people who apparently have no issue bending over and accepting that kind of abuse, are why they keep doing it and getting away with it.

i think they fail to see the value of IP, which is what you are paying for in this situation. If the knowledge is worth $100 then that's it. There is no 60% of knowledge, and there are no discounts after work is completed. If you want a discount then ask up front.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[A790]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
How do you typically deal with people who think they shouldn't pay the entire amount or believe they are entitled to a discount?

If it's identified before the project begins we negotiate. If we don't reach a deal then I don't do the work.

If they try to negotiate in the middle of the work I remind them of the agreement and insist that we stick to the terms. If they refuse, or threaten to withhold money, I immediately cancel the project and keep any deposit/etc. that they may have placed.

My time deserves compensation.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Do you routinely accept the money offered, then delete or undo everything you did for them?

It's strange that if you're asking out of curiosity that you'd ask such a loaded question. Do I "routinely" accept money offered, then delete/undo everything? No. Have I done it? Absolutely.

One client refused to pay the final amount due upon project completion. Days/weeks of e-mailing/calling yielded me nothing, so I removed the work that I had done. I had payment two days later.

A client I'm currently dealing with hasn't paid the second half of her invoice, and from what I can tell won't do so (she's gone radio silent for over a week now). I've given her a deadline of the end of the week, and if the invoice isn't paid by then (two weeks past the due date) then absolutely I'll remove the work.

I think the point that you are missing is that the bill wasn't paid. The product wasn't paid for. They DO NOT OWN the product. You don't stop making car payments halfway into your loan and expect to keep half the car do you? Because when the bank takes the car AND keeps what you've already paid, I'm pretty confident they don't feel that way.

[jonnycat]

If Mar's work was a tangible $100 iphone, it would be like the guy took possession of Mar's iphone, wasn't giving it back and would only pay him 60% of the agreed upon asking price. So then Mar took the $60 went home and remote bricked the phone. To me this is totally warranted. But in this example he has options to get his phone back.

Mar couldn't ask for his product back and refuse the deal. He spent the time did the work and his customer could have easily locked him out of the website before he could go back in. Now he is out time and all his money. Because this was not a tangible item he has no recourse to get his money. What would they do sue each other in court for $40?

[bjstare]

Originally posted by GTS4tw


If they agreed on $100 then he did have a contract in place. the OP is kind of ambiguous about if it was exactly $100 or "around $100" though.

Do just a little bit of research into contract law, then consider editing your post. Just because they agreed on $100 does not mean that a contract was in place. Offer and Acceptance are only 2 of the elements required to actually have a contract.

[Isaiah]

I'm with A790 and Mar on this one. When product or services are rendered as agreed, the agreed price must be compensated in full.

I had an issue with a customer who didn't want to pay for product they received and were invoiced for. Unfortunately, I didn't have the option that Mar did to take the product back. Here's the thread about it if anyone's interested:

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/377655/sc...vo-thu-van-vo/

[Sugarphreak]

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[Maybelater]

Lmao@this turning into a debate

Just send him Tyrone u wot m8 sound clip and post the results.

[A790]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
So you must be in favor of car salesmen who keep deposits… they put in all that time trying to make a sale, so when the person decides to go somewhere else to buy a car, keeping the deposit to compensate their time regardless of the circumstance should be allowed?

Again, not even remotely close.

Now, if the dealership brought the vehicle in and added options/customization that I wanted, and then I changed my mind, absolutely they're entitled to keep that deposit.

In the future, please create scenarios/examples that are actually fair and reflective of the situation.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by cjblair


Do just a little bit of research into contract law, then consider editing your post. Just because they agreed on $100 does not mean that a contract was in place. Offer and Acceptance are only 2 of the elements required to actually have a contract.

Maybe you should research contracts.

The 3 elements to a contract are:

offer
acceptance, and...
consideration

Consideration in this case was the money. If buddy said - "If you fix my website, I will give you $100." And Mar said, "Yes, I will fix your website for $100" - That's a contract. The money doesn't have to actually change hands, it just has to be agreed what the consideration will be on both sides for the contract to form.

Mar then completed, so he's entitled to the agreed upon $100.

That said, if the exact amount wasn't agreed or an objective method to determine it wasn't agreed - then there's probably room for argument.

Whatever though, it's such a small amount that the law doesn't really matter - who would sue over $40 to $60?

[cancer man]

Did you shake the guys hand after the deal was made?Handshake is a contract.
Or was this over a phone call..

[bjstare]

Originally posted by dexlargo
Maybe you should research contracts.

The 3 elements to a contract are:

offer
acceptance, and...
consideration

Consideration in this case was the money. If buddy said - "If you fix my website, I will give you $100." And Mar said, "Yes, I will fix your website for $100" - That's a contract. The money doesn't have to actually change hands, it just has to be agreed what the consideration will be on both sides for the contract to form.

Mar then completed, so he's entitled to the agreed upon $100.

That said, if the exact amount wasn't agreed or an objective method to determine it wasn't agreed - then there's probably room for argument.

Whatever though, it's such a small amount that the law doesn't really matter - who would sue over $40 to $60?

Right. My bad.

And I agree that the amount is so small it doesn't matter. I get consistently surprised at how big of a deal people make over what is, essentially, pocket change. Some things aren't worth the stress.

[Mar]

This certainly derailed. I found the old emails, here you go.
I remember now, it took me 9 days just to get him to agree to pay me, then when I went by he gave me half. I was dumbfounded, then he just walked back in his house with me standing on his lawn.

From: Shooter McGavin
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 19:24:35 +0000
To: <awesome developer>
Subject: RE: website

Hi!

I am waiting for your fead back please and I will see you tomorrow at
this adress to show you all the staff i need to fix if you can do it

Thanks

To: Shooter McGavin
Subject: Re: website
From: <awesome developer>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 05:02:01 +0000

It's complaining about line 37 in your tv5afrique.php file which is
referencing $url_video which is the location of the video on its remote
server.
What I'm saying is it looks like the video was moved on the server it's
curently sitting on. That tv5 video is no longer in the place that it
was in. Either it was moved or deleted but this isn't even remotely
related to what I was doing for you. If you want me to take a look into
it further, I charge $40 per hour and there's no guarantee I'll be able
to figure it out. I'll also have to install an English language pack
because I don't know any French.

Let me know.

From: Shooter McGavin
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 04:51:42 +0000
To: <awesome developer>
Subject: News send


the website you are talking about is www.tv5.org. But because your dont
understand french, I think you can find the new code of the video at
this place: http://www.tv5.org/TV5Site/afrique/index.php#

40$? ok but I would like show you something to add that is too easy

I was worried because I wondered wether or not this is because of the
banner. Anyway I am sorry.

Could you fix it this night. I get alot of news from africa that i cant
add because I cant registered

thanks

To: Shooter McGavin
Subject: Re: News send
From: <awesome developer>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:35:08 +0000

I just disabled the tv5afrique plugin you have on there so the site is
working again. Of course the tv5 videos are not working because I
disabled it but I can fix that if you know the URL of the video you
want. Once you find the link to the video, send it to me and I can add
it.

To: Shooter McGavin
Subject: Re: News send
From: <awesome developer>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:49:08 +0000

All done. The total for all work was 3 hours between removing the
original advertisement, fixing the TV5 module and adding the government
listing.

You can either pay me cash or cheque. I can pick it up from you or you
can drop it over to me in the evenings. I move around a lot during the
day so it's hard to deliver it during work hours.

3 hours X $40 = $120

Let me know if you need anything else done on your
site.

From: Shooter McGavin
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:19:28 +0000
To: <awesome developer>
Subject: RE: News send

hi Mar,

sorry for not calling you today. but we go na probably meet tomorrow. I
finish working arround 3 am, and then i am going to call you to let you
know where you can find me.

To: Shooter McGavin
Subject: Re: News send
From: <awesome developer>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 04:48:00 +0000

Did you try to call me? I am free this week to meet
you.

From: Shooter McGavin
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:17:09 +0000
To: <awesome developer>
Subject: RE: News send

Hi Mar,

May be it better I send it to you by mail. But let me give you my
adresse in case you prefer to pick it up.

XXXX Rundlehill Rd NE
Calgary,AB T1Y 2P5

I will sleep only at midnight

To: Shooter McGavin
Subject: Re: News send
From: <awesome developer>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:20:34 +0000

Great, I can pick it up tomorrow night from
you.

From: Shooter McGavin
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:38:29 +0000
To: <awesome developer>
Subject: RE: News send

ok

To: Shooter McGavin
Subject: Re: News send
From: <awesome developer>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:06:34 +0000

It'd be great if I could come by in an hour or so and pick up that
cheque. Will you be home?

From: Shooter McGavin
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:17:52 +0000
To: <awesome developer>
Subject: RE: News send

ok please send me the website where I can see the graphisme

Thank

[GTS4tw]

I dunno Mar, that's some pretty loose wording. He seemed to only agree to $40 and there is some language barrier, you are still in the right, i can just see how he may have been confused.