Jury Duty / Summons

[topmade]

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I dont think they're as discriminating as you think. I got a summons when I was barely out of university making EIT money.

Yeah, I got 3 so far and first one was around 19 with plenty of tickets and bad credit working low wage jobs.

The first 1 was cancelled before, 2 went into courts but I never got selected. On my last one there was a ton of people and it filled up two courtrooms and the judge was on speaker so if you heard your number you go over to the other room, luckily I was in the main room to watch. It was a pedo case spanning over many years and the judge straight up said this will be around a 6 - 8 week trial and he would be a bit more lenient in passing people if you had a decent excuse but as soon as there was a no show, he called for the bailiff to put out a warrant for arrest, so yeah don't be that no show.

[NoSup4U]

Was summoned about 5-6 years ago. A couple hours into the weeding process I was still seated and looked like I might have to go through with it, but the judge came in after a break and said it would no longer be going to trial and sent us home.....boy, did the beers ever taste good that afternoon

[revelations]

oh wow, I had no idea they took in people with bad credit and poor driving records.... used to be 'people of good general character' or some other line

[dromz]

I was called twice about 10 years apart, first time my daughter had a doctors appointment at the children's hospital, the second time I got out because I just turned 65. Its easy to get out, just show bias against (pick your poison).

[hampstor]

Brings back some memories of a time I actually went through with this. The case I was a juror on was a sexual assault of a minor who was under the age of 16.

Initial selection:
Years ago, I was called for jury selection. I was excited to be called - definitely wanted to participate in the process. I showed up in a room of about 300 people, the judge explained how this is a civic duty that we must all take seriously, what the trial was for, how long it was expected to go for, and then they did roll call. Some people didn't show up, the judge passed the numbers and names for them to "deal with" later. Then start pulling numbers out of a lottery basket. First number was called, the guy had some excuse, judged accepted, and then he left. As luck with have it, I was the second number called. I had no valid excuse so I didn't even bother trying, both counsels accepted me, and then I sat in the juror seating area.

For the next hour, I watched a parade of people with excuses, and some failing miserably. A few memorable ones, a student said he had to study for an exam, the judge asked when the exam was, then questioned the student why they needed so much time to study (trial was supposed to be 1-1.5 weeks and the students exam was 3 weeks out). When the student didn't give a good answer, the judge refused the excuse. One of the counsels rejected him as a juror (no reason needs to be given but I suspect it was pity). Another guy tried saying his employer wouldn't give him time off work, the judge asked for the employer's name and number and requested a phone to call the employer, the guy caved, and the one of the counsels took pity and rejected him as a juror. I don't recall any medical reasons being rejected nor those who had flights booked (and could produce a ticket).

In short - if you have an excuse, make sure it's solid and expected to be called out on it. Have supporting backup documentation/information with you. What I saw that was rejected was a reasonable bias in the case (eg. personal trauma related to the type of case), medical reasons (eg. one guy had to go off mic and tell the judge something about his medical issue), and travel.

Rest of case:
We were brought into the juror room and we were told the process, how it works, what to expect, how much you get paid, and what you're not allowed to do. Most importantly, whatever is said in the juror room between jurors is never to be shared, ever, under punishment up to and including jailtime. The whole process end to end was really interesting, a few things I will share which won't land me in jail:

- Jurors used to not get any mental health care. They were forbidden from even speaking to a therapist about it. It changed a few years ago and they provided specific mental health specialists for former jurors who sat through very difficult trials.
- They don't tell you when you might be sequestered, so every day you show up with a backpack expecting to be put into a hotel. If you're sequestered, they take away all your electronics.
- Until you are sequestered, you can go home every day.
- You don't have to wait in line at security at the courthouse. You can walk to the front of the line, show them your juror papers, and they will let you in. This is because they're trying to avoid running into people involved in the case. You can't talk about the case with anyone, or let them know you're on a jury for that case.
- They will bring in food for you if court is the full day. The vietnamese place across from the courthouse was really popular!
- Not every day is a full day. One day we showed up and after a few hours, was told there was a procedure issue, so we went home before noon.
- The pay is shit. It was like $60/day. My employer still paid my regular salary though.
- You are told to avoid social media, news, any type of media at all.
- I felt the gravity of the situation when I realized I was participating in judging a peer in society that would put the person away for a long time, or if we made a mistake the a person was set free.

Legal/process matters:
- For criminal cases, the jury must make a unanimous decision.
- You appreciate how high of a standard "beyond a reasonable doubt" is, and what "innocent until proven guilty" really means. The following phrases : "probably guilty, maybe guilty, might be guilty, likely guilty, should be guilty", mean NOT GUILTY.
- The jury role is to decide the facts, not law, and not the verdict. The judge gives you very clear instructions and a decision tree. If you believe this fact is true, then this. If you believe this fact is false, then this. You reach a "guilty" or "not guilty" verdict at the end of each branch.

It really changes your perspective on how the system works and why prosecution and cops are so careful in building the case and collecting evidence. It takes a lot of time to build what you think is an airtight case. Even what you think is an "open and shut case" isn't that and a miss-step by prosecution or defense could lead the jury's decision tree to lead to a not guilty or a guilty verdict.

For myself, I would do it again, however I would never take on a sexual assault of a minor case again. I doubt I would consider any case that deals with children anymore either. That's the excuse I will use if I ever get called again.

tl;dr: Don't think any old excuse will get you out of jury selection - it needs to be reasonably solid. The process itself is really interesting and you'll learn a lot about how things really work. I won't sit on another case involving minors ever again.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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7 years worth of sexual assault of a minor

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It was a pedo case spanning over many years

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sexual assault of a minor case

So do they just issue a juror summons to the Beyond user list every time one of these kind of cases comes up or what?

[rx7boi]

@hampstor

It is interesting that jurors didn't use to get mental health care, were forbidden to speak with therapists about it, and no other care was provided.

When did this rule change?

[hampstor]

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So do they just issue a juror summons to the Beyond user list every time one of these kind of cases comes up or what?

Someone insert a pedobear image... i can't because i'm on a work computer

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@hampstor

It is interesting that jurors didn't use to get mental health care, were forbidden to speak with therapists about it, and no other care was provided.

When did this rule change?

The case I sat in on was in 2015/2016. We had access at that time, however they said it was a fairly "recent" thing. Didn't say exactly when it happened. Was told there were some high profile cases and incidents that changed things.

Edit: seems to be different from province to province. in Alberta: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...port-1.2805701

[revelations]

Its your civic duty to be kept under guard, no time frame and no mental health services provided of any kind, and get paid what people made in the 1980s.

Glad I have an out for this.

[16hypen3sp]

My wife filled out the Juror summons online and committed to the selection process for mid next month. She got confirmation they received it right away. She has no reasonable excuse to not go and I don't think she will have an excuse during selection. According to local news, Quinton Strawberry goes to trial in March for second degree murder.... I wonder if that's what it's for.

Nevertheless, going to be very interesting to see what happens.

[hampstor]

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My wife filled out the Juror summons online and committed to the selection process for mid next month. She got confirmation they received it right away. She has no reasonable excuse to not go and I don't think she will have an excuse during selection. According to local news, Quinton Strawberry goes to trial in March for second degree murder.... I wonder if that's what it's for.

Nevertheless, going to be very interesting to see what happens.

Keep us in the loop! If she's selected, would be interesting to find out how this works during a pandemic.

[16hypen3sp]

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Keep us in the loop! If she's selected, would be interesting to find out how this works during a pandemic.

I can already tell you some pandemic related stuff....

Along with the summons, there is a Covid-19 protocol sheet. In order to accommodate distancing, the selection process is taking place at a pavilion at the Westerner Grounds instead of the courthouse. Have to bring a mask and what not. Completing the summons form online was their preferred method of replying. You have to call a special phone number the day before selection to listen to a recorded message saying if they require you or not.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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Completing the summons form online was their preferred method of replying. You have to call a special phone number the day before selection to listen to a recorded message saying if they require you or not.

FWIW that was also the normal procedure when I had mine. The phone call is a great idea as it saves a lot of hassle for folks that don't have to go.

[16hypen3sp]

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FWIW that was also the normal procedure when I had mine. The phone call is a great idea as it saves a lot of hassle for folks that don't have to go.

Yah I kind of figured they were doing the phone call thing prior to all this. Definitely saves a trip and hassle.

I'll keep you guys informed of what goes on.

[rx7boi]

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The case I sat in on was in 2015/2016. We had access at that time, however they said it was a fairly "recent" thing. Didn't say exactly when it happened. Was told there were some high profile cases and incidents that changed things.

Edit: seems to be different from province to province. in Alberta: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...port-1.2805701

I'm glad things changed. This is no different than employers putting EFAP services in place for their employees and taking ownership for support.

Jurors aren't just hearing traumatic events but they're also exposed to evidence that can cause the same.

[Clever]

Unless this changed recently I know that they are doing jury selection at the stampede grounds, they needed space for people to be able to social distance. I got summoned back in 2011, there were 3 matters that day all sexual assault in nature. I was selected twice but was not picked. I thought it would’ve been a cool experience. Now because of work, I can no longer be summoned.

[Tik-Tok]

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So do they just issue a juror summons to the Beyond user list every time one of these kind of cases comes up or what?

I think it speaks more to the sheer number of cases that happen. 50% of sexual assaults in Alberta are against minors.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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I think it speaks more to the sheer number of cases that happen. 50% of sexual assaults in Alberta are against minors.

Yeah I figure it's that, along with a high percentage of sexual assault cases that opt for a jury trial.

[hampstor]

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I think it speaks more to the sheer number of cases that happen. 50% of sexual assaults in Alberta are against minors.

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Yeah I figure it's that, along with a high percentage of sexual assault cases that opt for a jury trial.

Damn, it didnt cross my mind that this could be the reason. Now I feel bad about my pedobear joke.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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Damn, it didnt cross my mind that this could be the reason. Now I feel bad about my pedobear joke.

Naaah that was still a good reference.