5-year-old, grandparents disappear from SW home

[rage2]

Originally posted by codetrap
Anyone here join the volunteers going around Airdrie looking for the bodies?

Interestingly enough, the cops have said that the public should stop the searches.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by Seth1968


You people really care?

So often we see folks using tragedy to raise their own personal profile by taking it on as a cause. A sort of benevolent ambulance chasing.

It happens enough - Someone must have coined a clever term for this somewhere.

[lilmira]

[speedog]

Originally posted by lilmira

[Kloubek]

No positive characteristics? How about the family feeling support from the community?

Misguided and self-righteous? Believe it or not, some people DO care about others. Maybe even others they haven't met. I honestly didn't even think about the fact I might be on TV when I attended this. I didn't WANT to be on TV. I couldn't care less. And believe me - I have a real and deep caring for what happened to this family, and it is not at all "misguided" in my opinion. This was just an unfortunate scenario which really hit my emotions hard, and I felt I wanted to do what I could.

I'm not going to sit here and claim that this was the BEST way to show support, but it was one of the very few events that were arranged to do so. The balloon I released was going to be released anyway by someone else, and at that point besides placing something on the memorial (which I also did) I had no other way to show my support, or to release the emotion I've been holding inside of myself as well. It's the same reason you guys might be keyboard warriors on here advocating for environmental concerns, yet I bet you don't attend any rallies or go around getting petitions signed. You've drawn your own lines in the sand, and determined for yourself what you believe is doing "enough".

Yes Seth... emotion. Google it if the description evades you.

And Codetrap: I know what you're saying and generally respect your views on Beyond. But in the scope of environmental issues, I truly think some balloons being released pales in comparison to the atrocities companies like Syncrude are inflicting on the environment. They might be "held responsible" for cleaning up messes, but I'm fairly certain they have no ability to bring back the lives of many creatures which inevitably were killed by the oil before any cleanup would have been complete.

And yet, to some degree, most Albertans have that same "la-de-da" attitude, because that same oil keeps them from having to walk to work or cook over a campfire. It helps the economy and gives money back in our pockets which we can then use to buy plasma TV's and other luxuries. People shut up because it's the expected cost of having those benefits. So who is to say that the emotional benefit in this case for those involved was any less worthwhile than the practical benefits we receive from other non-environmentally friendly practices?

At the end of the day, I totally "get" the argument. To be honest, I would have FAR preferred to see a different way to show support and to release the emotions people were feeling. But to me, it seems like a pretty hypocritical stance to nag on this particular event when we, as consumers, are damaging the planet in ways far worse than releasing balloons. If that is indeed the stance one is to take, then perhaps going around signing a petition to ban balloons in general is a good idea. I see them floating up around the Stampede all the time. Guess where your kid's party balloons ended up? Yup... the landfill. Hey, while you're at it, ban every object which might be harmful to the environment. Ban petroleum consumption. Ban manufacturing. I mean, where does it stop?

Again, I'm not discounting the negative effect these balloons may or may not have, but everyone has it in themselves to determine the risk/benefit of any given situation, and everyone will have individual opinions on where the line is to be drawn.

[Seth1968]

I agree to disagree with you Kloubek, but honestly, I do see your point.

It's not that I'm devoid of all emotion, but most of it? Yes.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Seth1968
I agree to disagree with you Kloubek, but honestly, I do see your point.

It's not that I'm devoid of all emotion, but most of it? Yes.

Its not even being devoid of emotion. It comes down to this:

Originally posted by wishicouldwrench


So only actions that do good in an objective sense are acceptable. Glad I understand now.

Well, yes, if everyone in the world did this, it'd be a much better place.

These people will suffer. Releasing ballons is stupid and pointless, it's not like the family is "wow, we now truly understand how many people are supporting us".

It's kind of like the "government of alberta" advertising signs for infrastructure projects. Its already a foregone conclusion who is supporting the project, we don't need to be told. It doesn't make me feel better that the government is loudly telling me "we are supporting you!". I already know that.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Kloubek
~snip a bunch of really good points ~

I'm not blind to the emotional benefit to the family. Not in the least. On an emotional level, I'm glad for the comfort they received in knowing that they have the support of thousands of utter strangers, and that as a community we can pull together. There IS value in that. What I can only hope for is something like this.. the next time, and there will be a next time unfortunately, that something happens where people want to show support. Where they feel the need to DO something. Maybe they can organize an event where everyone comes with their candles, and they build a mountain of canned food, or toys, or whatever item they'd like that can be donated in the name of the victim to someone else where it can at least do some other good, and not have to harm something else in the process. That's my ultimate purpose.

I'm also not blind to the fact that comparing something like the ongoing environmental disaster that we're all tolerating makes a bunch of balloons seem like mouse nuts. The current fighting going on in Gaza makes the murder of a couple of old people and a kid pale in comparison too. But it's not right to compare them. Trying to compare tragedies and figure out which is worse does a disservice to everyone, and realistically, it doesn't diminish the horror of either. Just because thousands of people are getting murdered every day in conflicts around the world doesn't make what happened here any less horrible.

The final point I'm trying to make is that we all have a responsibility to do as little harm, and as much good as we possibly can.

Oh, and on a personal note.. I'm not just a keyboard warrior on this stuff. I'm pretty active in trying to do good, even though I may play at being a jerk on beyond.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by codetrap
Snip another bunch of good points...

Oh, and on a personal note.. I'm not just a keyboard warrior on this stuff. I'm pretty active in trying to do good, even though I may play at being a jerk on beyond.

I personally have never viewed you as a jerk on here. A little opinionated maybe, but that can be said of myself and many others on here. And for that matter, the comments regarding lack of empathy were not really directed to you as much as they were Seth. But then, that's pretty much the attitude we've all grown to expect from him. (And Seth, I don't actually mean that as a dig. It's just a fact I think you will agree with)

I guess the ultimate point I wanted to get across is that we all have our opinions and decisions to make. I think if we're all honest with each other and being empathetic, each can appreciate the points made by the opposing "side". If you notice, I've refrained from calling the opinions of the opposition "stupid", or making personal comments unlike the statements coming in my direction by some. The only thing I did say (and I stand by) is that there is an element of hypocrisy to be noted. But as I also mentioned, we all decide individually where to draw our lines in the sand and I am at fault of displaying said hypocrisy in my own right as well.

This will be the last comment I make on the matter. As Seth says, agree to disagree. While there is clearly a debate to be had regarding the balloon release, it's really irrelevant to the actual case at hand... which is what this thread was started for.

[Seth1968]

^

[euro_racer]

» Click image for larger version

[wishicouldwrench]

It's difficult to see that those who are incapable of empathy in certain situations label the empathy of others as being misguided and self-serving.

I would argue that in my above statement the latter is a symptom of the former.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by wishicouldwrench
It's difficult to see that those who are incapable of empathy in certain situations label the empathy of others as being misguided and self-serving.

I would argue that in my above statement the latter is a symptom of the former.

Who here has shown a lack of empathy in this regard, and what exactly are your arguments?

[wishicouldwrench]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Who here has shown a lack of empathy in this regard, and what exactly are your arguments?

Originally posted by Seth1968
You nailed it again Codetrap.

It was a stupid act that had no positive characteristics. It's all under the misguided and self righteous "we care" notion.

You people really care?

When is the last time you dumped garbage to show awareness about our degrading human rights, corporate takeover, or pedophiles being let back into society?

em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/Submit
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

"no positive characteristics"
"you people really care?"

If you can't figure out the connection here, I'm afraid our discussion cannot continue.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by wishicouldwrench




em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/Submit
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

"no positive characteristics"
"you people really care?"

If you can't figure out the connection here, I'm afraid our discussion cannot continue.

That's too bad, as I was really looking forward to having a conversation with you.

In regards to empathy, are you aware that I'm one of the guys that state the immediate threats to human kind?

Now what was that about empathy?

[wishicouldwrench]

Originally posted by Seth1968


That's too bad, as I was really looking forward to having a conversation with you.

In regards to empathy, are you aware that I'm one of the guys that state the immediate threats to human kind?

Now what was that about empathy?

I never said you were incapable of empathy in general, just specific situations, such as the balloon event. It's pretty self evident given the definition of empathy, which is the only reason I included it for you.

I'm not blaming you for it either, we're all different and certain events that resonate strongly with one person may not resonate strongly with another. I guess all I'm saying is that it would be nice if you could refrain from making negative assumptions regarding the motivations of other people when in reality you have no way to be sure what is making them act in a certain way. This is especially the case because you already demonstrate a lack of understanding as to how some other people feel to begin with. For example, you said "it's all under the misguided and self righteous" - well, Kloubek doesn't seem self-righteous to me. He sounds like a good person who is willing to take time out of his day to show his support for a struggling community. I would wager he wasn't the only one. Even if some people have selfish motivations for showing support, that doesn't discredit the actions of those who don't.

Originally posted by Seth1968
You nailed it again Codetrap.

It was a stupid act that had no positive characteristics. It's all under the misguided and self righteous "we care" notion.

You people really care?

When is the last time you dumped garbage to show awareness about our degrading human rights, corporate takeover, or pedophiles being let back into society?

The biggest problem here is that you speak in terms of absolutes. Your assertion is that there is NO benefit whatsoever in the balloon event.

Failing to see how it is possible (I'm not speaking in absolutes here) that the family could derive benefit from the balloon event is quite clearly a demonstration of a lack of empathy in this particular situation.

To top it off, I find it ironic that you speak of self-righteousness, yet you speak as if you are in a position of someone who is all-knowing with respect to the costs and benefits of the event. Then, using that information that basically nobody else has, you have self appointed yourself as the judge as to whether or not the event created a net benefit or net cost.

I'm just curious, when you're walking downtown do you pick up litter? I don't, but I'm not bitching about a few balloons either.

[Milk2%]

Get to the source help the volunteers comb fields..... Not release balloons.....That's how you help. Not by showing your emotional support cause that's a load of BS.

[Milk2%]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/wrongfu...rown-1.1940768

[Milk2%]

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-po...trio-1.1946871

Having a few TEQUILLAS

[dirtsniffer]

So if there was enough evidence to declare them deceased and press murder charges why are they looking in Mexico? Doesn't make sense to ship 3 dead bodies down there.