Accountants.....grrrrr

[C_Dave45]

Gonna go on a bit of a rant here...I'm still steaming; For the past few years, my business books have been a complete mess. And every year, I've brought in a shoebox full of receipts,bank statements, slips of paper here, there and everywhere and had an accountant do my taxes. I can't imagine how much time it took them to manually enter every single bank, visa, and cash transaction for the entire year for my business. And each year my accountant's bill has been around $1500. To me, that's a hell of a bargain. (and no I'm not corporate...sole proprietor)

Fast forward to year-end 2013. Wife and I spent probably close to 100 hours entering all our data into Quickbooks Pro. A great accounting program. And with a click of the mouse I can pull up any report. It's fucking beautiful. For year-end taxes, I can even export all the data into a tax program. But nooooo, I figure I'll keep my business with my accountant. I email him my year-end file, which balances right down to the very penny on every account....

Total bill for this year....$1400 FUCKING DOLLARS!!!!!!! C'MON!!!!!!

I got charged $600 for a T5018 form, consisting of a whole THREE sub-contractors. My quickbooks makes out the very same form in about a half-a-second and I can e-file it. And I get charged $600 for him to do this?!!!
Jesus mother-fuck....I have customers gasp, when I charge $120 an hour for being on my knees, laying 100 lb slabs of marble all day long. Back breaking work. And my accountant wants $600 for a form that must've taken him all of 5 minutes, a few mouse-clicks and, oh....a stroll down the air conditioned corridor to re-fill his coffee cup??!!!! FUCK ME!!!!

And no ill-will towards the few beyond accountants that I've done work for...but, c'mon...this seems just a little to hard to swallow.

[finboy]

Hell I'm dating an accountant and I still tell her they are pretty much just engineers without the integrity

[Mibz]

I'm just blown away you're a sole prop. There's gotta be huge savings for you to incorporate, enough that your accountant bill could double and you'd still end up ahead.

[heavyfuel]

I'd still pay an accountant anyday, inc'd or not. DIY'ing taxes especially as a tradesperson is a huge red flag for an audit, $1400 for less of a chance of that happening, and support if it does, sounds just fine by me.

[C_Dave45]

M

Originally posted by Mibz
I'm just blown away you're a sole prop. There's gotta be huge savings for you to incorporate, enough that your accountant bill could double and you'd still end up ahead.

I've already been all through that discussion with three different CA's. I still get all the same deductions as I would if I was inc. I dont make enough for it to be financially beneficial.
The only downside is I open my self up personally for the biz itself if I go titters or get sued.

Lets stick to the topic under discussion. I pay $1500 for year-end with a shoebox full of receipts and umpteen hours worth of manual labour.....and pay the same when the entire year is in a proper accounting program????? I call bullshit.

[dirtsniffer]

Everything in the wifes name amirite?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
Everything in the wifes name amirite?

I wish! But no, we're joint on everything.

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
M

I've already been all through that discussion with three different CA's. I still get all the same deductions as I would if I was inc. I dont make enough for it to be financially beneficial.
The only downside is I open my self up personally for the biz itself if I go titters or get sued.

Lets stick to the topic under discussion. I pay $1500 for year-end with a shoebox full of receipts and umpteen hours worth of manual labour.....and pay the same when the entire year is in a proper accounting program????? I call bullshit.

I keep all my receipts in a shoebox too but only for backup. I work off of my bank and credit card statements line by line, transaction by transaction, categorizing it all into a spreadhseet, even separating the gst. That part is all just basic math, adding, subtracting, dividing. Then my CA (who is also my landlord, take my money, fuck lol) does the final review, tallying and filing. 6 digits gross, total professional fees, $236.50. I know you're an almighty contractor and I'm just the garbage guy but I'm the one $1150 and change ahead here, not inc'd either so heed my advice or don't. If I can manage basic math to save a few bucks, I'm sure you can too. Nobody should have to deal with a shoebox for less than a G note lol

[Sugarphreak]

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[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
If you don't know what you are doing then yes, however if you did what Dave did used software, then CRA could care less who prepared it.

Yeah I thought about that after the fact... me I just feel more comfortable if anything past basic math and the filing itself is in the hands of a professional lol plus my landlord/CA gets almost 14k/yr outta me so whats an extra couple hun to a pro whom I already have a good rapport with?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by heavyfuel



I keep all my receipts in a shoebox too but only for backup. I work off of my bank and credit card statements line by line, transaction by transaction, categorizing it all into a spreadhseet, even separating the gst. That part is all just basic math, adding, subtracting, dividing. Then my CA (who is also my landlord, take my money, fuck lol) does the final review, tallying and filing. 6 digits gross, total professional fees, $236.50. I know you're an almighty contractor and I'm just the garbage guy but I'm the one $1150 and change ahead here, not inc'd either so heed my advice or don't. If I can manage basic math to save a few bucks, I'm sure you can too. Nobody should have to deal with a shoebox for less than a G note lol

Believe it or not, my business probably isn't much more involved than yours. I probably have less customers and vendors as you...maybe more gross sales, but not much. And that's my whole point...I didn't mind spending that kind of coin when I didn't have things organized...I just never had time. So finally, last year I buckled down and got it all into Quickbooks. I can now do cash flow reports, know how much I'm earning in a quarter, job cost each job, know what my equity and balance is at etc, etc. When I go to the bank and they want financials, I can give it to them with a few mouse clicks.

I'm fairly adept at accounting. I did my own books and taxes for years and years, and even survived an audit from CRA as well as WCB.....so I kinda know a bit about the process. And this was before computers, when I entered everything by pencil into a huge GL.

But now that I've got everything into the software program, I'm thinking of just doing my own year-end. I figured it would be a few hundred bucks, but to pay $1400 or so just to import the data into a tax program that spits out a couple returns....just seems a little high.

[revelations]

That is an insane amount for an SP - I paid less for COMBINED personal/corp/GST taxes with my CA out of Bragg Creek.... ($1000)

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
just seems a little high.

Lol If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that from a contractor whom I was giving an estimate to...

[EK69]

lol its probably a flat fee of $x for preparing ur taxes
either send him the shoe box again next year, or tell him to fuck off and do ur own taxes next year since u seem to know what ur doing

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
Believe it or not, my business probably isn't much more involved than yours. I probably have less customers and vendors as you...maybe more gross sales, but not much. And that's my whole point...I didn't mind spending that kind of coin when I didn't have things organized...I just never had time. So finally, last year I buckled down and got it all into Quickbooks. I can now do cash flow reports, know how much I'm earning in a quarter, job cost each job, know what my equity and balance is at etc, etc. When I go to the bank and they want financials, I can give it to them with a few mouse clicks.

I'm fairly adept at accounting. I did my own books and taxes for years and years, and even survived an audit from CRA as well as WCB.....so I kinda know a bit about the process. And this was before computers, when I entered everything by pencil into a huge GL.

But now that I've got everything into the software program, I'm thinking of just doing my own year-end. I figured it would be a few hundred bucks, but to pay $1400 or so just to import the data into a tax program that spits out a couple returns....just seems a little high.

Easy way to decide. Figure out how many hours it took to keep track all year in stead of ignoring it and get your hourly wage. See if its worth your time. Cleary you are capable.

[Sugarphreak]

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[KappaSigma]

Skimmed through. Not sure if posted. If it was then disregard. Why don't you just ask your accountant why the fee is similar yet you've done the leg work?? Versus complaining.

[sabad66]

I hear you on this. Not quite the same situation, but I am a dual us/can citizen and I wanted to get caught up on my us returns only to find out most companies want $600+ per year for a personal US return. Since I had to do 4 yrs in back taxes, I was quoted $2500. For 4 simple personal returns where I was a student and made less than 40k!

I ended up investing about 20 hours of time researching and filed myself.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Originally posted by KappaSigma
Skimmed through. Not sure if posted. If it was then disregard. Why don't you just ask your accountant why the fee is similar yet you've done the leg work?? Versus complaining.

Possible that the self entered stuff was incorrect and had to be re-worked?

[stillworking]

It sounds like he has brought his fees in line with current rates.
I can't say exactly for a proprietor though.
The going rate for a T2 (Corporate Income Tax) is roughly $1200-2500, not including any bookkeeping.
And it's always cheaper to hire someone to do bookkeeping then handing it off to your designated accountant.
Sounds to me like you got lucky for a few years.