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Thread: Right to bear arms

  1. #61
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    Originally posted by Modelexis


    Side arm carry is legal in the states and the only time I've ever heard of a gun being pulled in traffic by a legal gun owner is by a police officer.

    When you go to the shooting range are you afraid to talk to anyone in case they might flip out on you and shoot you? According to you a shooting range is one of the most dangerous places in Canada since you have civilians with loaded weapons interacting with the public.
    Just because you never heard of it does not mean it doesn't happen. Maybe road rage was a weak example, heated arguments outside of bars/downtown is maybe a better one. Just this past weekend two men got into a argument over a woman and one decided to pull out and fire his registerd .40cal handgun injuring 7 people in the process.

    Your gun range example is pretty redicolous , I don't know what range you go to but my experiences at them have been pretty friendly, I was talking about heated scenerios and situations so your gun range argument does no apply. That said I did hear of incidents such as accidental discharge and suicide happening.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love more then anything to carry a sidearm out to the backcountry, but IMO it is just not neccessary in public (in Canada) and I don't have trust in most of the people in the general public to take on such a responsibility.

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    Originally posted by euro_racer
    Don't get me wrong, I would love more then anything to carry a sidearm out to the backcountry, but IMO it is just not neccessary in public (in Canada) and I don't have trust in most of the people in the general public to take on such a responsibility.
    This. The fact that I have a hard time trusting people to be smart enough to use a butter knife the right way, let alone a loaded firearm, makes me fully agree. All it takes is a few seconds of irrational rage/thought and everyone's life changes, why give that kind of responsibility to people you don't know and/or trust?

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    sig deleted by moderator, because they are useless

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    Originally posted by FraserB
    The biggest issue is that no one wants to have a legitimate conversation about firearms. The media and the government have spent too much time and money teaching people to be afraid of guns that there is never any coverage about firearms that isn't full of fear mongering, misrepresentation and outright lies.

    Using terms like "assault rifle", "high capacity magazine", "military style" and other hyperbole is only meant to inflame and scare people away from facts and laws. Heaven forbid you try to actually educate people on the actual laws, least you be labelled a nut.
    The problem is that the other side is guilty of the exact same thing.

    In fact those that are staunchly pro-gun are often less likely to want to talk because they have the most to lose.

    Morgan Spurlock has a good episode about guns in America on an episode of his show Inside Man (on US Netflix). It is pretty well balanced.


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    Originally posted by FraserB
    It's 100% possible to legally store a firearm in such a manner that would allow it to be use in a home defense situation.
    How so?

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    hrm... Assult "type" rifles or handguns that yield a corrosion resistant finish that happens to be fingerprint resistant?

    awesome... yes I definately need one to carry in my pocket whenever I go bike riding and people infringe on my "rights" when not yielding for me when I ride through a red when I want to.

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    Originally posted by euro_racer


    Just because you never heard of it does not mean it doesn't happen. Maybe road rage was a weak example, heated arguments outside of bars/downtown is maybe a better one. Just this past weekend two men got into a argument over a woman and one decided to pull out and fire his registerd .40cal handgun injuring 7 people in the process.

    Your gun range example is pretty redicolous , I don't know what range you go to but my experiences at them have been pretty friendly, I was talking about heated scenerios and situations so your gun range argument does no apply. That said I did hear of incidents such as accidental discharge and suicide happening.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love more then anything to carry a sidearm out to the backcountry, but IMO it is just not neccessary in public (in Canada) and I don't have trust in most of the people in the general public to take on such a responsibility.
    Cant get it to embed..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjwz...has_verified=1

    Scary to think he was legally carrying this.
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    Originally posted by sputnik


    How so?
    Read the thread. I mentioned I few scenarios

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    Originally posted by civic_stylez


    Cant get it to embed..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjwz...has_verified=1

    Scary to think he was legally carrying this.
    And what was he carrying? A handgun? Can't see anything in the video

    I don't understand what you mean? Is it just that you are afraid of people who have handguns?

    I was expecting like an M4 from your statement...

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    Originally posted by killramos


    Read the thread. I mentioned I few scenarios
    Not really. In the scenarios you mentioned you still had guns that were "single locked" and unloaded. You also forgot to mention that ammo must be locked in a separate location.

    Not exactly the ideal solution if you plan on using a firearm to protect your house from a home invasion.

    Compare that to this option in the US.


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    Originally posted by sputnik


    Not really. In the scenarios you mentioned you still had guns that were "single locked" and unloaded. You also forgot to mention that ammo must be locked in a separate location.

    Not exactly the ideal solution if you plan on using a firearm to protect your house from a home invasion.

    Compare that to this option in the US.

    There is absolutely 0 requirement for ammo to be locked in the firearms act.

    You cannot store ammo in the same location as a firearm unless they are locked together, however if you want to leave ammo all over your kitchen counter you are free to do so, so long as there are no guns locked or otherwise on your kitchen counter.

    As for my mention of ammo with guns.. Funny that sounds exactly like what I said earlier...

    Originally posted by killramos

    You can't store ammo with a gun unless they are locked up together. You must lock a gun while it's stored. A gun cannot be loaded when it's stored.

    If you need a gun quickly those factors get in the way. Effectively eliminating the possibility to store a firearm to be used in a home defends situation.

    Yes I know you can buy a Gunvault and keep a loaded mag next to an unlocked handgun inside of it but that vault isn't always where you are...
    As for a slick system you can usein Canada just put this in a bedside table

    click for larger version
    » Click image for larger version

    Because this is a "Safe" under Canadian firearms laws you can keep an unlocked restricted inside it as well as ammo ( a loaded magazine). because its biometric it works very quickly. You could also keep a locked shotgun case under your bed (not biometric) with shells locked inside with it that would be kosher, i think the handgun way is slicker.

    However I always said that the laws make it very difficult to use a gun for self defense, you just have to spend a bunch of money and be smart about it.

    I for instance keep my handgun unlocked inside my safe with loaded magazines right next to it. However i have a full sized safe in my basement and am looking to get one of the products i showed above( GunVault Mini) to keep in my bedroom.

    I do live in the Northeast after all

    edit: I will add the caveat that I am in no way providing legal advise in this posst just pointing out some interesting products
    Last edited by killramos; 07-15-2014 at 03:12 PM.

  13. #73
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    Originally posted by sputnik


    How so?
    Spring loaded biometric gun safe with loaded clips right beside the gun. People who go to such lengths usually are well practiced in readying the weapon very quickly as well.

    Pistols make terrible home defense weapons anyway, a small shotgun, pepper spay or a baseball bat/golf club are all things I'd rather have. Try hitting a relatively small moving target when you're truly scared for your life - without training, it probably isn't going to happen, and even then, training will never simulate the situation fully. I'd much rather have a "spray and pray" type solution like a small pistol gripped shotgun or bear spray (though the latter might get me just as bad lol).

    Ammo can be with the gun if they are locked up (included in a pre-loaded clip), or ammo can be all over your house out in the open if there are no guns around. You can leave it on the kitchen counter if you like, or in your bedside table or wherever you please. No issues there at all. You cannot purchase it without a license, however.

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    Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


    Spring loaded biometric gun safe with loaded clips right beside the gun. People who go to such lengths usually are well practiced in readying the weapon very quickly as well.

    Pistols make terrible home defense weapons anyway, a small shotgun, pepper spay or a baseball bat/golf club are all things I'd rather have. Try hitting a relatively small moving target when you're truly scared for your life - without training, it probably isn't going to happen, and even then, training will never simulate the situation fully. I'd much rather have a "spray and pray" type solution like a small pistol gripped shotgun or bear spray (though the latter might get me just as bad lol).

    Ammo can be with the gun if they are locked up (included in a pre-loaded clip), or ammo can be all over your house out in the open if there are no guns around. You can leave it on the kitchen counter if you like, or in your bedside table or wherever you please. No issues there at all. You cannot purchase it without a license, however.
    Sounds like we are both on the same mental track hahaha

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    KelTec KSG with a Surefire light. Legally holds 15 shells, short enough that you're not going get hung up on door frames.

    Hearing a shotgun being racked in the dark is probably going to send a lot of would be criminals running.
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    Kind of, sort of related to this thread - 29 year old mom accidentally shot and killed by her 2 year old son in a Walmart in Idaho (link to story)...

    By BILL MORLIN and KIRK JOHNSON
    DECEMBER 30, 2014
    HAYDEN, Idaho — The details are shatteringly ordinary. A 2-year-old toddler, sitting in a shopping cart in a Walmart, his mother’s purse unattended and within reach as she shopped. Three girls, all under age 11 — relatives of the boy and his mother, the police said — tagging along. A frosty morning in the northern Idaho panhandle, the temperature in the teens. Holiday break. The clothing aisles near electronics, back of the store.

    Then, shortly before 10:20 a.m. on Tuesday, as the store video cameras recorded the scene, the little boy found a gun in his mother’s purse and it discharged once at near point-blank range from where she stood, less than arm’s length away, said Lt. Stu Miller, a spokesman for the Kootenai County sheriff’s office. She died at the scene, he said, her death appearing to be accidental.

    “He probably still doesn’t even know what has happened,” Lieutenant Miller said of the boy.

    The victim, Veronica Jean Rutledge, 29, of Blackfoot, Idaho, about 380 miles from Hayden in Idaho’s southeast corner, was visiting family members here in this community of about 13,000 people bordering the resort town of Coeur d’Alene, about 40 minutes from Spokane, Wash. Both her parents and her husband’s live in the area, Lieutenant Miller said.

    He did not know whether Ms. Rutledge had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Her husband came to the store to collect his son and the girls after the accident.

    “This situation is such a tragedy, particularly happening so close to the holidays,” Lieutenant Miller said. Asked why the woman might have felt the need to go armed to the Walmart, he said that carrying a weapon was not particularly remarkable or unusual.

    “It’s pretty common around here — a lot of people carry loaded guns,” he said.

    This part of Idaho, about 100 miles from the Canadian border, is not part of the state’s famed agriculture belt, known for its potatoes, which stretches far to the south. Up here, evergreen forests, the blue expanse of nearby Lake Coeur d’Alene, and the deep historical imprint of the silver mines that defined life for decades starting the 1800s, make it feel more like Montana or Washington, the states that sandwich it on either side.

    “It’s a small-town atmosphere with a lot of tourism and a lot of growth,” said Stefan T. Chatwin, the city administrator, in an interview at City Hall, about three blocks from the Walmart, which sat closed, its parking lot mostly empty, on a stretch of U.S. 95 that wends down from British Columbia. The store is expected to reopen on Wednesday,

    Mr. Chatwin also said that guns are a part of the culture here. The city amended its gun laws just last week, he said, to conform with state laws and make it clear that a gun owner is justified in firing a weapon in defense of persons or property.

    Judy Minter, a self-employed artist who was working on an art display at City Hall, said that she too supported the right to bear arms, though she said she did not carry a weapon herself. The wisdom of when to go armed or not seemed to her to be more the question at issue in Tuesday’s accident.

    “There’s a lot of people who do carry guns in this area,” said Ms. Minter, who had spent most of the day photographing bald eagles, a common sight on Lake Coeur d’Alene. “But for her to have it within reach of her child — that was not very smart.”

    Bill Morlin reported from Hayden, and Kirk Johnson from Seattle.
    And now the shootings that have left 9 dead in the Edmonton area - there is no right answer when it comes to gun controls. Both tragic events in different jurisdictions with different gun laws and innocent people are dead.

  17. #77
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    Originally posted by speedog
    Kind of, sort of related to this thread - 29 year old mom accidentally shot and killed by her 2 year old son in a Walmart in Idaho (link to story)...



    And now the shootings that have left 9 dead in the Edmonton area - there is no right answer when it comes to gun controls. Both tragic events in different jurisdictions with different gun laws and innocent people are dead.
    If other shoppers were carrying guns in that Walmart, they could have taken down that toddler before he caused any trouble.


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    Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
    [B
    The spirit of the Amendment is clearly the peoples right to bear arms and protect themselves from other people and a tyrannical government, trying to infringe on their freedom.
    [/B]
    This right was amended to the constitution right around the American Revolution (against the British). The "Tyrannical" government was the British, and the intended freedom was from... the British.

    This wasn't initially about arming oneself against the American government itself.

    Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

    It would only make sense the understanding was in order to do that the weapons must be reasonably matched.
    Without the power to tax, the power to bear arms is of limited value.

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    Originally posted by speedog
    And now the shootings that have left 9 dead in the Edmonton area - there is no right answer when it comes to gun controls. Both tragic events in different jurisdictions with different gun laws and innocent people are dead.
    I don't see what this story has to do with gun controls. No different than leaving your kid alone behind the wheel of a car with the keys in it while you go shopping. The car incident would not make me wish that there were more laws about leaving keys in cars or owning cars or owning keys, it's just some stupid person being careless.

    I'm not equating leaving a kid in a car with the keys to leaving a loaded gun near a kid, I'm just asking why the gun tragedy needs to be met with legislation while the car tragedy would be met with a Darwin award.

    Laws don't stop stupid, if they did no one would ever be killed by a dunk driver speeding through a red light.
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    Whoa. I agree with modelexis and I'll quote 2EFN. Play Stupid games and you win stupid prizes.

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