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  1. #21
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    Originally posted by BavarianBeast
    Speaking of red wine, I'll share what I thought was a funny story my dad told me a few years back.

    He was out for dinner with some colleages and some very high profile clients.

    One of clients the told the waiter that he would like to order the most expensive, exclusive red wine on the menu. The guy who ordered shortly left the table to go to the washroom. My dad, thinking it would be hilarius waved the waiter over and told him to just bring out the cheapest red wine they have as a joke.

    The waiter proceeds to bring the bottle of wine (cheap bottle) to the table once the client was back and poured him a glass. The client did the whole wine connesuer thing, twilring the glass around and smelling the aroma. After that he proceeded to take a taste and rambled on how it is such a good year, and how it is the most amazing wine and blah blah blah.. The whole table burst out in tears laughing at this guy. After he discovered what my dad had done, he got up enraged and left the dinner leaving his two partners behind.

    I thought it was a funny story.
    This doesn't surprise me. Ive had wines under $20/bottle that surpass wines that are $150+ a bottle, actually this is surprisingly common. Actually, Ive had more phenomenal wines under $20/bottle then I have very high end wines of countless times more the cost. Dont get me wrong, the high end ones will have attributes that the cheaper ones will barely ever have, but over all, its not hard to have enough reason to choose the cheaper more well rounded cheaper one, over the very pricey esoteric one thats debatable at best.

    A bit of a tip for you, you want to know why they swirl the wine? to test the sugar content. The more "legs" (/ small streams, flowing downward obviously) it has after you twirl it, the higher the sugar content. If there are few to no legs, it has a low sugar content, which is typical of higher end wines, as they dont need to add sugars to aid in the vinification (proper term for "wine making") process or to sweeten up the harsh over tones of the wine.
    Natural sugars occur if the growing season is ideal, of which depends on the variety of grape. Under ideal conditions for ANY grape (of which vary GREATLY), it'll produce enough natural sugar to create the perfect wine, under shit growing conditions for the grape in question, artificial sugar (which creates the legs) is needed to attempt to create a more "perfect" balance. This is why the dirt cheap piss wines listed on the first page have a very high sugar content, and aren't really "wine" in the common sense of the term.

    Also, the reason for sniffing the wine first, is to detect what the floral bouquet is. Typically, if you have a nose good enough, you can detect what berries were used, and in what quantities to create the wine, as well as what spices and other notes used to create the flavor, which is then justified by your first sip of the wine.

    Also, by mere scent, a well trained nose can easily tell if the wine was vinted in wood (the proper traditional way) or in Stainless steel vats. Stainless steel is FAR more common on cheaper wines as its FAR cheaper of a process, problem is, you'll always lack that woody oak like body that higher end wines will have if properly vinted in oak casks. I can tell quite easily of how it was vinted, and how long it was vinted for, also the exact type of wood used in the casks, and how many times those said casks were used. Typical oak casks can be used for vinting about 5-6 times, then their expired.

    Hmmm, I almost feel like having an introductory wine tasting day, so I can show you guys what to look for, and how to detect what berries were used, and what they all taste like (etc etc etc). Being a Sommelier is quite an interesting thing, full of so many things most people have little to no idea about. Lol the whole topic of wine is so vastly intriguing, its a world within itself. It only gets more complicated the farther you get into it.
    Last edited by Graham_A_M; 07-22-2014 at 11:02 PM.
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    Haha sounds like it, thanks for the quick educational piece on that never knew about the sugar content test. I will be buying the wine from a small liqour store in Golden B.C but they sound big enough so I'm going to compile a list of the wines you guys have mentioned above and see how they compare for prices. Problem being a small town, I'm assuming they're going to be a bit more expensive that what I can get in town.

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    I would like to make a suggestion.


    Go and visit a reputable wine shop - and ask for some advice.

    You will get asked some questions to help narrow down the choices and then the shop will be in a position to give you the best product suited to your budget and menu.

    My first suggestion would be to visit Richmond Hill wines - they have the best educated and experienced stafff in the city. Second choice would be JWebb.

    Any of the top shops here take their education and experience seriously and a few steps the right way can certainly lead to a lifetime of enjoying the nuances of wines from around the world.

    Their goal is not to just sell you the most expensive wine, but to build you as a customer. Costco may save you a few pennies for certain commercial products but a well-crafted product will certainly be more enjoyable and something to remember.

    What do you want your wedding dinner to be remembered by?

    Just my 2 cents.

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    Graham, I wanted to address your post separately.....

    I'm not sure where you got your sommelier education. Are you WSET or ISG certified?

    But:
    The swirl test has nothing to do with a sugar content test - most of the time the 'legs' will tell you what rinse agent the restaurant uses.

    Get a glass of scotch/brandy/rye and swirl it - lots of legs? you bet. How much sugar - NONE.

    You had stated it also showed how much sugar was added during vinification - in most countries it is illegal to add sugar to the process. The sugar level (brix) comes from the grapes themselves.

    The reason you swirl the wine is to introduce some oxygen into the wine to help release aromas present in the wine - a vigorous shaking sometimes is necessary to release more aromas.

    You also stated that the smell will tell you what berries were used and spices used. Are you actually suggesting that the wines are built using a recipe of different products to create the bouquet?

    The smells that come from the wine are individual aromas present in the grapes themselves - one grape can have many different smells and characteristics based upon many diiferent factors during the growing and ripening process.

    Further to the smell comments - yes it is true that you will be able to smell the different 'woods' used in the process as well. Many wineries will add oak chips to a stainless fermenter to provide that smell/taste so it is certainly NOT an absolute.

    I would be happy to lend you my 'Le Nez du Vin' kit if you would like.

    Or go here and buy one:
    http://www.winearomas.com/


    To quote you:

    I can tell quite easily of how it was vinted, and how long it was vinted for, also the exact type of wood used in the casks, and how many times those said casks were used.
    I would like to see that! Let me know when I can be there.

    Hmmm, I almost feel like having an introductory wine tasting day, so I can show you guys what to look for, and how to detect what berries were used, and what they all taste like (etc etc etc). Being a Sommelier is quite an interesting thing, full of so many things most people have little to no idea about.
    And one more, "How to detect what berries were used" you are kidding right? Last time I checked it is usually made from grapes.

    Wine is fun, enjoy it!

    Sorry about the rant, but I felt very strongly that is was sending the wrong information and message. I would be happy to continue the discussion elsewhere as to not continue derailing the thread.

    Cheers,
    Miles

    PS. Spent my formative years learning winemaking at Geyser Peak in California mentored by Darryl Groom of Penfolds and worked in Chile/Argentina/France/Spain as a professional in the industry.
    Last edited by milesmcewing; 07-23-2014 at 11:30 AM.

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    ...
    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-03-2019 at 01:17 PM.

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    Moral of the story: 0 out of 3 beyonders can agree on what having "legs" indicates.

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    Personally my go to for an "affordable" red is the Jackson Triggs Merlot. It is very reasonably priced, It is one of my go to's when out on the town when I just want a glass of red to accompany my meal and not looking for anything special. It is a medium bodied wine imo that has some fruity characteristics and tannins arent to harsh which is appealing to a lot of people who are not "red wine coniseurs" or arent eating a lot of red meat since wines with heavy tannins imo need a nice fatty/juicy piece of meat to break them down and really be enjoyed.
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    Originally posted by cjblair
    Moral of the story: 0 out of 3 beyonders can agree on what having "legs" indicates.
    No, the moral of the story is to be weary of posts on Beyond by self proclaimed 'experts'.

    Miles, thanks for saving me (and I'm sure some others) the trouble.

    However -
    Originally posted by milesmcewing
    ...
    Get a glass of scotch/brandy/rye and swirl it - lots of legs? you bet. How much sugar - NONE.
    I'm sure you know there is a a TON of sugar in any of the brown spirits... Not sugar added during the distillation process, but naturally occurring sugars, just like in the grapes in wine.


    "what berries were used"
    Last edited by you&me; 07-23-2014 at 08:26 AM.

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    Originally posted by boarderfatty
    Personally my go to for an "affordable" red is the Jackson Triggs Merlot. It is very reasonably priced, It is one of my go to's when out on the town when I just want a glass of red to accompany my meal and not looking for anything special. It is a medium bodied wine imo that has some fruity characteristics and tannins arent to harsh which is appealing to a lot of people who are not "red wine coniseurs" or arent eating a lot of red meat since wines with heavy tannins imo need a nice fatty/juicy piece of meat to break them down and really be enjoyed.
    If you can find it, Painters Bridge Merlot is quite delicious. JT is my go to cheap wine and i find that Painters Bridge is quite similar. Its almost sold exclusively at The Keg but can be found in some stores.

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    ...
    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-03-2019 at 01:17 PM.

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    At a winery in South Africa we were told:

    1) Swirling introduces oxygen and releases aromas
    2) Smelling before drinking enhances the flavour
    ....

    Something about putting the edge of the wine to see a colour transition from clear to red on a white background indicates something. I dunno the rest is a little fuzzy.
    Last edited by msommers; 07-23-2014 at 09:15 AM.
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    Thank god I'm not a wine expert, it sounds exhausting.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Originally posted by milesmcewing
    Graham, I wanted to address your post separately.....

    I'm not sure where you got your sommelier education. Are you WSET or ISG certified?

    But:
    The swirl test has nothing to do with a sugar content test - most of the time the 'legs' will tell you what rinse agent the restaurant uses.

    Get a glass of scotch/brandy/rye and swirl it - lots of legs? you bet. How much sugar - NONE.

    You had stated it also showed how much sugar was added during vinification - in most countries it is illegal to add sugar to the process. The sugar level (brix) comes from the grapes themselves.

    The reason you swirl the wine is to introduce some oxygen into the wine to help release aromas present in the wine - a vigorous shaking sometimes is necessary to release more aromas.

    You also stated that the smell will tell you what berries were used and spices used. Are you actually suggesting that the wines are built using a recipe of different products to create the bouquet?

    The smells that come from the wine are individual aromas present in the grapes themselves - one grape can have many differnet smells and characteristics based upon many diiferent factors during the growing and ripening process.

    Further to the smell comments - yes it is true that you will be able to smell the differnt 'woods' used in the process as well. Many wineries will add oak chips to a stainless fermenter to provide that smell/taste so it is certainly NOT an absolute.

    I would be happy to lend you my 'Le Nez du Vin' kit if you would like.

    Or go here and buy one:
    http://www.winearomas.com/


    To quote you:



    I would like to see that! Let me know when I can be there.



    And one more, "How to detect what berries were used" you are kidding right?

    Wine is fun, enjoy it!

    Sorry about the rant, but I felt very strongly that is was sending the wrong information and message. I would be happy to continue the discussion elsewhere as to not continue derailing the thread.

    Cheers,
    Miles

    PS. Spent my formative years learning winemaking at Geyser Peak in California mentored by Darryl Groom of Penfolds and worked in Chile/Argentina/France/Spain as a professional in the industry.
    Thanks for clearing that up. I almost fell off my chair when I read what GRAHAM wrote. You were far kinder to this "sommelier". In fact I'm pretty sure he doesn't realize that is an actual designation that you have earn and study for. I'm personally going through the WSET program purely out of convenience since it is offered in Calgary. I started collecting wine a few years ago and absolutely love the hobby. Learning and tasting wine has been an amazing experience.
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    With this being one of the most wildly subjective food/drink related things I can even think of, why not take a buddy or two and go try some yourself? Taking internet recommendations is just as likely to land you with a wine you like as randomly selecting one off the shelves haha.

    Why not enlist the help of the liquor store, since you will be spending a bunch of money there, and have them recommend some for you to sample within your price range?

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    OP, I have noticed one crucial piece of advice, which is of the utmost importance, absent in this thread.


    Regardless of choice you will need more than one case!
    Last edited by heavyfuel; 07-23-2014 at 09:53 AM.

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    Originally posted by ExtraSlow
    Yeah, I didn't buy the truck to "hook up" and have pulling contests with small-dicked poor people like you. I bought it to transport my kids and wife to the country club in quiet refinement. The bed is handy as a big trunk for when I stock up on champagne and caviar.

    Originally posted by ExtraSlow
    Thank god I'm not a wine expert, it sounds exhausting.
    Ahhh, cheap champagne and caviar in bulk. Knew it. Lemme know if it goes on sale and you wanna really stock up I'll haul a load to your shack for ya lol

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    Originally posted by Sugarphreak


    No the moral of the story is Sugarphreak is always right...




    ...and that 0 out of 3 beyonders agree with the same moral of the story
    see, thats what i always thought too... but since i pay little attention to wine i gave everyone the benefit of the doubt since the only classes i have attended have been scotch related. for wine, if the old man or uncle have ordered it... i know its going to be good

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    Originally posted by heavyfuel




    Ahhh, cheap champagne and caviar in bulk. Knew it. Lemme know if it goes on sale and you wanna really stock up I'll haul a load to your shack for ya lol
    Shit, you caught me.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    In response to "you&me" - your comment about the sugar in 'brown spirits' is incorrect - the sugars are converted into alcohol in the distillation process. They may start with lots of sugar but it is gone by time is becomes 'whisky'.

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