Canada to Bomb Iraq (and prob. Syria too!)

[broken_legs]

Poll Question: Should Canada Bomb Iraq?

House Approves Combat Mission
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/house...isis-1.2042926

It authorises air strikes in Iraq for up to six months and states explicitly that no ground troops be used in combat operations.

The combat mission includes up to six CF-18 fighter jets, a refuelling tanker aircraft, two surveillance planes and one airlift aircraft. About 600 airmen and women will be involved.

Yay, fucking idiots.

Officially, Iraq has just become the second country after Libya I have had to leave due to Canada dropping bombs in less than 4 years. Now if Canada bombs Syria as well, thats a true fucking disgrace. This country is losing all moral high ground.

Instead of bombing Iraq and Syria, why dont we bomb Saudi Arabia and Qatar?

Why isnt our government trying to find out and put a stop to whomever is funding ISIS?

This is absurd. It stinks more than the WMD justification for Gulf war 2. At least then, people only suspected that the WMD case was fake. This time its widely known and reported that our allies are funding, arming, and training the people we are going to bomb.

Where is the media asking the tough questions? How can this shit keep happening?

/rant


Mar 29 Update EDIT:
Gee that didnt take long at all.

Here's Harper with Peter Mansbridge 3-1/2 months ago:

What were very very clear on is that we dont want anything thats interpreted as a war on the government of Syria. We were invited by the government of Iraq, were doing that, thats why were there.
....

...But we have no desire to enter in a war with any government in that country (Syria)...

Fast Forward to 9:35

March 24:

... The government is also seeking the support of this house for its decision to explicitly expand the air combat mission to include Syria

...

The government has now decided we will not seek the express consent of the Syrian government, instead we will work closely with our American and other allies

^^ So we are bombing a sovereign nation without declaring war.

Do ya think this might piss off some folks? Tehres already a bunch of other warring nations bombing that country. What exactly is Canada going to add to this???

Does anyone remember 9-11? People were outraged at the request to go to war in Iraq. Where is the outrage?? Why are we attacking Syria?

[broken_legs]

Prime minister Stephen Harper's Conservative Party introduced the motion last week and it was debated this week. Mr Harper has a majority of seats in parliament so the 157-134 vote was all but assured.

It authorises air strikes in Iraq for up to six months and states explicitly that no ground troops be used in combat operations.

The combat mission includes up to six CF-18 fighter jets, a refuelling tanker aircraft, two surveillance planes and one airlift aircraft. About 600 airmen and women will be involved.

Also just to clarify something. Im all for Canada to go bomb ISIS in KURDISTAN at KURDISTANS request.

Thats not whats goimg to happen though. We are going to bomb areas and cities where the locals are sympathetic to ISIS. Areas that are outside of Kurdistan in Iraq that are Sunni and probably happy that the Shiite Iraqi army is gone.

Im 100% against bombing syria and any other part of iraq (even with bagdhads approval)

This set of cf18s is exactly the same contingent we sent to Libya 3.5 years ago. That was a mess before we got involved and its still a mess now.

[slinkie]

Originally posted by broken_legs

Instead of bombing Iraq and Syria, why dont we bomb Saudi Arabia and Qatar?

They make millions a day from syrian oil fields btw

[Go4Long]

I'm not sure what your poll is supposed to be asking since the questions you asked are not really able to be answered by yes or no responses...so as to why our media is not asking tough questions, or why we aren't bombing Saudi Arabia and Qatar, I answered undecided.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Go4Long
I'm not sure what your poll is supposed to be asking since the questions you asked are not really able to be answered by yes or no responses...so as to why our media is not asking tough questions, or why we aren't bombing Saudi Arabia and Qatar, I answered undecided.

The poll question is "should canada bomb iraq

Originally posted by slinkie




They make millions a day from syrian oil fields btw

I believe thats a new phenomenon and greatly exagerated by western media. Whos buying it, and how are they paying for it? Why dosnt the US sanction those countries?






http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isi...ls-say-n208006

small but steady flow of money to ISIS from rich individuals in the Gulf continues, say current and former U.S. officials, with Qataris the biggest suppliers. These rich individuals have long served as "angel investors," as one expert put it, for the most violent militants in the region, providing the “seed money” that helped launch ISIS and other jihadi groups.

No one in the U.S. government is putting a number on the current rate of donations, but former U.S. Navy Admiral and NATO Supreme Commander James Stavridis says the cash flow from private donors is significant now and was even more significant in the early fund-raising done by ISIS and al Qaeda’s affiliate in Syria, the al-Nusrah Front.

[broken_legs]

"No boots on the ground" ( except the 26 Special Forces "Advisers" that are already there )

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/step...iraq-1.2783846

"It is 26 [Canadian soldiers in Iraq] today," Harper said. "The government has authorized 69, as is well-known. That's obviously a maximum. Those numbers will fluctuate depending on the decisions of operational commanders."

Harper told the House on Sept. 16 that Canada was "in the process of deploying" 69 soldiers.
'Secrecy and evasiveness'

Employment Minister Jason Kenney told the House that same day that "69 brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces are providing tactical advice to the Kurdish militias​."

On Sept. 26, James Bezan, parliamentary secretary to Defence Minister Rob Nicholson, told MPs there were "69 members of the Canadian Armed Forces who are providing tactical advice in Iraq," although in a separate answer he'd said "up to 69" special forces were being deployed.

Nicholson himself told the House on Sept. 25 that Canada had "committed" 69 soldiers and that "69 members of the Canadian Armed Forces have the full permission and co-operation of the Iraq government​."

[Feruk]

This conflict will have at least one winner... Assad.

Originally posted by broken_legs
Whos buying it, and how are they paying for it? Why dosnt the US sanction those countries?

Funny enough, sounds like Assad is buying the oil. Also, there is a 700km border with Turkey which is poorly monitored. Can't sanction black market.

[GTS4tw]

No. We should only ever attack anyone if they pose a direct threat to Canada, or have directly attacked an ally. Otherwise we are horrible disgusting child-murdering pigs, but meh, too late now.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Feruk
This conflict will have at least one winner... Assad.



Funny enough, sounds like Assad is buying the oil. Also, there is a 700km border with Turkey which is poorly monitored. Can't sanction black market.

fair enough, lets look at the low case. Its been quoted up to 3 million $ per day, but lets take 1,000,000$

Oil diesnt sell for the spot price in iraq, most IOCs are getting 30-40 $ per bbl

1,000,000 $/day / 30$/bbl = 30,000 bbls of oil being sold per day

33,000 bbls/day / standard turkish 20,000 L tanker truck

Thats 262 turkish tanker trucks crossing the border everyday on a tightly controlled military manned border.

Turkey is part of NATO so should be pretty easy to get them to stop the trucks, right?

And what about the money? Are they transferring gold, cash, bonds all by hand? Wjy cant they shut down the bank accounts?

I see no way to stop this. Our hands are tied. Lets just bomb some more civilians. That will win usmore hearts and minds and surely discourage people from attacking Canada.

[Modelexis]

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/385609/ca...s-to-iraq-war/

Originally posted by egmilano
They sent advisor's over to help the kurds, maybe some equipment ... big whoop thats not war

[revelations]

Too bad the Arabs and Muslims (ie different sects) couldnt just take care of their own probems

[kertejud2]

I find it irresponsible that were sending our brave pilots in without the use of stealth.

Why doesn't this government care about the safety of our pilots?!

[n1zm0]

^I think that IS only has AA guns and MANPADs, but who knows, they might've captured the heavy SAMs from their plundering, so far no reports of aircraft getting hit by one that we know of, pretty sure they're going to be ok.

Originally posted by revelations
Too bad the Arabs and Muslims (ie different sects) couldnt just take care of their own probems

I think all the surrounding countries are afraid to commit, plus they have their own local problems brewing, also there's just so many damned groups/borders involved now and none of it will ever come to an easy conclusion imo, it's a far larger deal than where they just started out in Syria last year fighting Assad, this 'campaign' is going to be a long one I think.

Syria:

» Click image for larger version

Iraq:

» Click image for larger version

Kurds supplied by the Iraqis have barely enough firepower to stay aloft, the YPG/PKK also have barely anything to fight off an attack from heavy Soviet howitzers and tanks, the FSA and IF have nothing really, IS has taken control of so much hardware, armour, field guns and logistics equipment, the only thing that can stop them imo is another well equipped/trained land based army trained in conventional warfare. The only real country (and NATO ally with the 2nd largest army within the organization behind the US) that would maybe (and reluctantly) push in somewhat on the ground would be Turkey , since their parliament just approved military action along the Syrian border, but most likely wont do anything unless IS breaks through.

Although it seems the airstrikes repelled the take over of Kobani and those major dams in Iraq, I think they're more or less useless in the end since IS has so much manpower and equipment, at most maybe some good combat training for aircraft and ships as well as a financial boost for defence contractors.

[dubhead]

Originally posted by broken_legs



Instead of bombing Iraq and Syria, why dont we bomb Saudi Arabia and Qatar?



/rant [/B]

Likely because Saudi and Qutar have joined in on the ISIS bombing campaign too

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by dubhead


Likely because Saudi and Qutar have joined in on the ISIS bombing campaign too

Strange that Saudi, Qatar, UAE, and Jordan have only committed to bombing Syria (without collaboratiin of the asad government).

Why is that?

What kind of relationship does the Asad government have with the abive mentiined sunni countries?

What do these countries gain by attacking isis?
What would they gain by removing Asad from power?

Gee, I hope theres no stray bombs meant for ISIS that will some how be landing on Syrian government positions.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by broken_legs


fair enough, lets look at the low case. Its been quoted up to 3 million $ per day, but lets take 1,000,000$

Oil diesnt sell for the spot price in iraq, most IOCs are getting 30-40 $ per bbl

1,000,000 $/day / 30$/bbl = 30,000 bbls of oil being sold per day

33,000 bbls/day / standard turkish 20,000 L tanker truck

Thats 262 turkish tanker trucks crossing the border everyday on a tightly controlled military manned border.

Turkey is part of NATO so should be pretty easy to get them to stop the trucks, right?

And what about the money? Are they transferring gold, cash, bonds all by hand? Wjy cant they shut down the bank accounts?

I see no way to stop this. Our hands are tied. Lets just bomb some more civilians. That will win usmore hearts and minds and surely discourage people from attacking Canada.

From what I've read, Turkey's 700km border is very poorly controlled. Are you proposing we bomb 262 trucks a day? Based on your math, that'd be $3800/truck that ISIS is making vs tens of thousands (if not more) for dropping a bomb on it. And worse... they'll just get another truck.

Most of the money came from robbing banks is Mosul. Hard currency and gold vs electronic, so cannot simply freeze it.

Originally posted by broken_legs
Strange that Saudi, Qatar, UAE, and Jordan have only committed to bombing Syria (without collaboratiin of the asad government).

Why is that?

My understanding is ISIS is Sunni and Assad is Alawite (or something) which is a brand of Shia. Populations of a lot of those countries wanna see Assad dead before they see ISIS dead.

[broken_legs]

^^

Exactly. This has nothung to do with ISIS.

This has everything to do with removing Asad.


In regards to the trucks... ? Who said anything Biut bombing trucks? Just close the border. End of discusion. Somehiw they can keep the kurds out, yet they cant control almost 300 tanker trucks per day??

Its only porous because Turkey allows it to be.

They allow it because they want ISIS to take out Asad.

Starting to see the common thread here?

[broken_legs]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/nation...or-middle-east

The U.S.-led bombing campaign has been hitting ISIL targets in Iraq and Syria. Canadian warplanes will only attack ISIL in Iraq, the government says.

^^Lets see if Harper can keep his word on this.



Looks like our boys will be flying out of Kuwait.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...q_mission.html

OTTAWA—The Conservative government has announced that Canada’s fighter jets and surveillance planes bound for the war against the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant will be based in Kuwait.
A status of forces agreement with the emirate, which already hosts a Canadian military supply hub, has been concluded.
The base will host CF-18 jet fighters, two CP-140 Auroras and a C-150 Polaris.
It will be about three weeks before the aircraft are in place and ready to conduct operations.

[Arash Boodagh]

Broken_Legs you seem pretty active in Canadian politics... whats your interpretation of Paul Calandra getting a standing ovation by his party for his firm stance to attack ISIL for Isreal but then having to apologize soon after for that very statement in tears?

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
Broken_Legs you seem pretty active in Canadian politics... whats your interpretation of Paul Calandra getting a standing ovation by his party for his firm stance to attack ISIL for Isreal but then having to apologize soon after for that very statement in tears?

No idea what or who youre talking about. I dont follow Canadian Politics, but I couldnt help but notice when Canada decided to bomb Iraq where i have lived and worked for the last 3 years +.



.... Blehaghabf