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Thread: Permanent speed cams in playground zones?

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    Default Permanent speed cams in playground zones?

    Who didn't seen this one coming?


    You’ve hated them on freeways, loathed them at intersections, and detested them on city streets.

    This time though, it’s going to be pretty hard to argue.

    Whether you call photo radar a cash cow, lazy policing or even something unprintable in a family newspaper, you can’t help but support them when the safety of children is in question — and that’s why permanent playground and school zone cameras are almost a certainty for Calgary.

    How certain? When the head of the Calgary Police Service Traffic Section wants permanent cameras tested near schools and parks, you know the first speeding tickets are as good as in the mail.

    “There’s a real push across the country to have speed cameras in playground zones, and cities are looking at putting them in full-time, and I don’t think anyone can deny that’s a critical piece to have,” said Insp. Ken Thrower, head of traffic.

    Thrower says he wants to try the same in Calgary, by installing cameras in school and playground zones, and making the radar locations obvious to motorists via signs — so basically, if you speed, you know a ticket is a certainty.

    “Regina is going to put them into five school zones permanently and that’s something I’m going to check into, to look at doing that here,” said Thrower.

    “Any kid being hit in a playground, that’s one kid too many.”

    It won’t be the first time a high-ranking police officer has successfully pushed for cameras on Calgary roads, with both red light cameras and speed on green technology the result of police officials campaigning for technology to improve intersection safety.

    Thrower specifically cites Saskatchewan as a province that’s currently making the cameras a permanent threat for any motorist who thinks a 30 km/h limit is too low in areas where children gather.

    In three cities — Regina, Moose Jaw and Saskatoon — a handful of school zones are being chosen for camera rotation, along with warning signs warning drivers the area may be under surveillance by photo radar.

    Much like Calgary’s intersection camera boxes, Saskatchewan will rotate the actual camera through the chosen school zones, so the motorist can never be sure whether the location is armed to issue tickets or not — the key being, it might be.

    The threat seems to have a drastic impact on speeds, going on the experience of cities like Chicago, which in 2013 installed automated speed enforcement cameras in 51 “Children’s Safety Zones” near schools and parks.

    In areas with the cameras, the number of speeding violations dropped by an average of 43% over the first year, with some zones recording a 99% reduction.

    To do the same in Calgary would likely require changes to Alberta’s Traffic Act, but with the province willing to allow mobile photo radar and stationary cameras at intersections, it’s unlikely to stand in the way of an initiative aimed at keeping children safe.

    In fact, Thrower says the province has been leaning on cities to do more to enforce school and playground speed limits, so testing permanent cameras in Calgary is almost certain to get the green light.

    “The province has been pushing that, and it’s always a big thing on our plate too,” said Thrower.

    “If sometime in the future we get all these cameras set up, and no one speeds, then hallelujah.”

    Unlike traditional photo radar, which is moved around and typically hidden, permanent school zone cameras would be a visible and constant deterrent to lead-footed motorists, including parents in a rush to drop their kids.

    For that reason, Coun. Shane Keating says he’s completely in support of the inspector’s plan to make school zones safer with permanent cameras — and he’ll even help pen a letter to the province, if it helps to accelerate the process.

    “I have absolutely no problem with that idea at all,” said Keating, chair of city council’s Transportation Committee.

    “This is not about revenue, it’s about controlling speed. What we’re talking about is absolutely about safety, and I see no problem with the police doing that.”

    http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/11/11...ayground-zones

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    This I wouldn't really mind, seen a few close calls with wreckless or oblivious drivers going 50-60KM/H in a playground or school zone with kids close by.

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    Enough is enough.

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    If it gets people to pull their head out of their ass and start considering their speeds through these zones, why would you have a problem with this? Seriously, those zones are filled with idiot drivers doing idiotic things that are imperiling pedestrians.

    I've handed out enough fail to yield for pedestrian, speeding through playground/school zone, careless driving, and other tickets as a result of the things I've witnessed alone, to know that if I'm witnessing it, there must be plenty of it happening when we AREN'T around.

    We can't enforce these things all the time, so anything to help enforce the laws in these zones is welcome.
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    ...
    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-12-2019 at 11:37 AM.

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    might as well be staring at the speedo instead of scanning for children who were never told that car>skull...

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    don't mind this at all
    i've seen people going 50-60 km/h at like 7pm

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    Originally posted by phil98z24
    If it gets people to pull their head out of their ass and start considering their speeds through these zones, why would you have a problem with this? Seriously, those zones are filled with idiot drivers doing idiotic things that are imperiling pedestrians.

    I've handed out enough fail to yield for pedestrian, speeding through playground/school zone, careless driving, and other tickets as a result of the things I've witnessed alone, to know that if I'm witnessing it, there must be plenty of it happening when we AREN'T around.

    We can't enforce these things all the time, so anything to help enforce the laws in these zones is welcome.
    You have to admit though Phil, the timing of this, right after they increased the times for the school zones is pretty ridiculous.

    Do you think these camera's are really going to help anyone except your offices income, when they're sending out photo-tickets for driving through a school zone at 8:55pm in the middle of winter when it's -30 out and there hasn't been a kid around for 4 hours?

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    Originally posted by ercchry
    might as well be staring at the speedo instead of scanning for children who were never told that car>skull...
    Everytime I hear that, I just laugh.

    What a ridiculous thing to say. You don't actually believe that, do you?

    If you have been driving a car for more than 2 weeks, you know how to maintain a consstant speed, it isn't that hard. What really galls me is putting the blame on children for acting like children. They aren't necessarily aware of the dangers around them, and they don't have fully developed brains that give them the same situational awareness as me and you.

    These sorts of stupid opinions, which seem to have flourished in the other thread about changing the zone times, are real head shakers.
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    The playground zone that pisses me off the most. 9th avenue heading towards Blackfoot trail after inglewood, they are constructin a building there, the playground is fenced off, kids can't use it and there is a fucking cop there daily.

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    If the safety of children is that important, shouldn't we be enforcing the law, stopping the act then and there instead of mailing you a piece of paper after the fact?

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    Originally posted by phil98z24

    They aren't necessarily aware of the dangers around them, and they don't have fully developed brains that give them the same situational awareness as me and you.
    And yet I've personally never had a kid run out in front of me in a school or playground zone in 20 years of driving...

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    Isn't delayed punishment useless and just shows this is about revenue generation?

    All that will happen is either people learn where these are, the cameras get vandalized or people just start covering their plates.

    Realistically, there is no risk at all to covering your plate since all you need is a bunch of snow, some mud, scraping the red parts off or a bike rack.

    Also, what is the legality of parent volunteers standing in the road in these school zones and trying to restrict movement of vehicles and keep people from parking in legal zones? Wouldn't this be considered jaywalking?
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    yes, more money wasting proposals as opposed to teaching your kids to actually look both ways before crossing the road. I wonder how the rest of the world manages to move on without this crap.

    I'd rather spend money enforcing parking rules in school zones where parents block a whole main road off parking beside the school with their van/suv because junior can't walk 5mins to school; or doing illegal U-turns in places where their vehicles clearly can't fit.
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    So me speeding at 8:45 through a playground zone with no one around is endangering children enough to warrant full time speed camera's?

    CPS would be better off using that Bluetooth/GPS checkpoint thing for deerfoot.

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    Originally posted by Tik-Tok


    You have to admit though Phil, the timing of this, right after they increased the times for the school zones is pretty ridiculous.

    Do you think these camera's are really going to help anyone except your offices income, when they're sending out photo-tickets for driving through a school zone at 8:55pm in the middle of winter when it's -30 out and there hasn't been a kid around for 4 hours?
    I won't admit that because I don't share that opinion. It will help them, because the fact is, I see the stats and what is happening out there. People drive terribly through these things, and for too long people have been "confused" about what 1 hour after sunset means. I fully agree with the idea that times should have been more cut and dry, and if it slows people down for all of 30 seconds while they go through a zone, who cares? Further to that, playground zones aren't just necessarily about the safety of children, it's also about numbers of pedestrians who are in close proximity, and who need to cross them.

    You guys are smarter than the average driver, obviously. You guys are car enthusiasts, and you get it. But I can tell you that after doing this job for many many years, my faith in the ability of Calgary drivers is gone. Completely and utterly gone. People drive so poorly in this city, and there aren't enough of us to enforce the laws, so we need all the help we can get.
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    Fuck this shit.

    7PM, dark out, middle of December, with not a soul in sight but an ever watching photo radar camera "for the safety of the children".

    I am going to say this even though it may be the unpopular opinion. If little johnny is not smart enough to know not to play in the street, little johnny should not be protected through life long enough to reproduce. If little johnny is young enough that he doesn't know not to play in the street yet, little johnny shouldn't be unsupervised. Natural selection needs to start playing a role in our society if we are going to survive. We can't keep this cycle going by enacting laws to protect the stupid at the cost of the rest of society.

    /rant
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    Originally posted by Tik-Tok


    And yet I've personally never had a kid run out in front of me in a school or playground zone in 20 years of driving...
    While this has not happened to me in a playground / school zone, but it does happen more I like in my residential area. I know which homes have the kids that like to dart out into the road on bikes etc and I'm doing 30 in that area. Most playgrounds / school zones are set back far enough from the road (or fenced in) that hopefully a parent paying attention would see their child running away in time.


    I'm for this. I am sick and tired of people trying to drive over me, through me, around me in the playground zone where I live. It's almost a daily occurrence.
    The biggest joke is, the people doing this actually live in my area and know better.

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    I wish they spent more money enforcing laws on stupid people than this. I agree people will just learn to slow down and then speed up and the others will find out a month later they got it.

    I don't think I have ever seen a speed trap in the correct spot in my many years of driving. Every time its in an area where going 10-15 km over would do no harm at all and they make it so obvious that its for money. You know the 4 lane highway were you go 60km with fields on both sides of you. Who makes these speed laws anyways. At least BC raised all their speed limits (on highways)

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    Originally posted by lilmira
    If the safety of children is that important, shouldn't we be enforcing the law, stopping the act then and there instead of mailing you a piece of paper after the fact?
    There isn't enough manpower to do that. We are too tied up doing other police work to be in those zones often enough.


    Originally posted by Tik-Tok


    And yet I've personally never had a kid run out in front of me in a school or playground zone in 20 years of driving...
    So that means it isn't happening? I drive around 12 hours a day and every year I've had a pedestrian, child or adult, run out, in front, around me, or into a crosswalk without waiting.


    Originally posted by FraserB
    Isn't delayed punishment useless and just shows this is about revenue generation?

    All that will happen is either people learn where these are, the cameras get vandalized or people just start covering their plates.

    Realistically, there is no risk at all to covering your plate since all you need is a bunch of snow, some mud, scraping the red parts off or a bike rack.

    Also, what is the legality of parent volunteers standing in the road in these school zones and trying to restrict movement of vehicles and keep people from parking in legal zones? Wouldn't this be considered jaywalking?
    Parents can't do it because they don't have that authority.

    And again, no manpower to enforce all playground and school zones with officers, all the time.


    Originally posted by AG_Styles
    yes, more money wasting proposals as opposed to teaching your kids to actually look both ways before crossing the road. I wonder how the rest of the world manages to move on without this crap.

    I'd rather spend money enforcing parking rules in school zones where parents block a whole main road off parking beside the school with their van/suv because junior can't walk 5mins to school; or doing illegal U-turns in places where their vehicles clearly can't fit.
    Just because they are taught to do it doesn't mean they are going to. Kids will be kids, and other pedestrians will do the same things. We can't change that, but we can slow people down for all of 30 seconds. Big deal.


    Originally posted by Ca_Silvia13
    So me speeding at 8:45 through a playground zone with no one around is endangering children enough to warrant full time speed camera's?

    CPS would be better off using that Bluetooth/GPS checkpoint thing for deerfoot.
    That's an interesting and completely unfounded conclusion. You certainly know that these zones start early in the morning and most of the posted time is during daylight hours when these zones see their highest use. But I guess anything that interferes with your right to speed is worthy of such a solid argument?
    Last edited by phil98z24; 11-12-2014 at 03:09 PM.
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