Cop Shoots 12 yr Old in Cleveland

[blitz]

Why don't criminals paint the ends of their guns orange?

[E46..sTyLez]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cleveland-...175019143.html

[broken_legs]

Updates on this in chron. Order:


http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...atest_upd.html

Details:
1. There is security cam footage of shooting, being kept under wraps for 90 days
2. The officer was less than 10 ft away when he shot him

[BavarianBeast]

Poor kid was probably reaching for the gun saying "look sir, it's just a toy!" I highly doubt the thought of being shot went through the 12 year olds head. I imagine he grew up with the understanding that police are there to protect you, not make assumptions and murder a 12 year old boy in cold blood.

It will be interesting to see what comes from the tape, but I have a feeling that it will not justify the officers actions what so ever.

[spikerS]

the internet is serious business, and I am trying to win an argument.

I thought there was a picture posted in here of the gun the kid had in an evidence box, anyone know where that went, or can find it for me?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by spikerS
I thought there was a picture posted in here of the gun the kid had in an evidence box, anyone know where that went, or can find it for me?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30172433

[GT.....O?]

This might come across sounding wrong, but maybe they need to change the training of "shoot to kill", to "shot to wound" in certain situations.

Why does an officer who doesnt know the whole situation need to shoot and kill someone?

Would a shot to the leg not stop a 12 year old dead in his tracks? we arent talking about a trained marine who might be able to retaliate with a shot back at the officer after being wounded, we are talking about a 12 year old who would probably drop like a rock after being shot in the leg.

Same situation with the guy in vancouver with a 2x4.... why couldnt they have shot him in the leg?

Im not agreeing either way.... but i think there is a big difference between SWAT invading a drug house to "fatally disarm" then a civil cop dealing with situations like this. I agree that there is way to much shot first ask questions later...

[FraserB]

Originally posted by GT.....O?
This might come across sounding wrong, but maybe they need to change the training of "shoot to kill", to "shot to wound" in certain situations.

Why does an officer who doesnt know the whole situation need to shoot and kill someone?

Would a shot to the leg not stop a 12 year old dead in his tracks? we arent talking about a trained marine who might be able to retaliate with a shot back at the officer after being wounded, we are talking about a 12 year old who would probably drop like a rock after being shot in the leg.

Same situation with the guy in vancouver with a 2x4.... why couldnt they have shot him in the leg?

Im not agreeing either way.... but i think there is a big difference between SWAT invading a drug house to "fatally disarm" then a civil cop dealing with situations like this. I agree that there is way to much shot first ask questions later...

Because shooting to wound is dangerous and doesn't work. You're perfectly willing to risk the safety of everyone else around, but not that of the suspect?

Here's an even better idea for these people who wind up shot by cops. When a cop tells you to do something, do exactly as they say. Don't try to be helpful or interpret things for him, just follow their instructions.

[E46..sTyLez]

Originally posted by FraserB


Because shooting to wound is dangerous and doesn't work. You're perfectly willing to risk the safety of everyone else around, but not that of the suspect?.

Soo just to clarify, shooting someone in the leg is not risking their...safety? lol

[GT.....O?]

Originally posted by FraserB


Because shooting to wound is dangerous and doesn't work. You're perfectly willing to risk the safety of everyone else around, but not that of the suspect?

Here's an even better idea for these people who wind up shot by cops. When a cop tells you to do something, do exactly as they say. Don't try to be helpful or interpret things for him, just follow their instructions.

Again, totally depends on the situation. How is a guy with a 2x4 going to injure anyone 10+ feet away with a bullet wound in his leg??? A cop with a drawn gun is going to be able to put 5+ bullets in the guy if he tries to advance on the cop... Then yes, shooting to kill is fully justified...

A 12 year old kid (regardless if he has a gun or no), with a shot to the leg... you can't honestly tell me that shooting to wound wouldnt have worked..

Im not saying every situation can be resolved by taking an extra second to think about things, but there has got to be way more discretion......

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by GT.....O?
A 12 year old kid (regardless if he has a gun or no), with a shot to the leg... you can't honestly tell me that shooting to wound wouldnt have worked..

If he has a gun, you shoot to kill. Last thing you want is a suspect that can still squeeze a few rounds off. Do nobody any good.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by GT.....O?


Again, totally depends on the situation. How is a guy with a 2x4 going to injure anyone 10+ feet away with a bullet wound in his leg??? A cop with a drawn gun is going to be able to put 5+ bullets in the guy if he tries to advance on the cop... Then yes, shooting to kill is fully justified...

A 12 year old kid (regardless if he has a gun or no), with a shot to the leg... you can't honestly tell me that shooting to wound wouldnt have worked..

Im not saying every situation can be resolved by taking an extra second to think about things, but there has got to be way more discretion......

When facing forward, the visible portion of a leg represents on average 4.5% of body area. Add in movement and the fact the cop will have a higher level of adrenaline in his system than on a calm, quiet firing range; and your not hitting anything. You might eventually hit the leg, but by that time you've missed a bunch and sent a bunch of bullets flying randomly.

Center of mass represents close to 30% and the change of stopping a threat is much higher than shooting someone in an extremity.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by E46..sTyLez


Soo just to clarify, shooting someone in the leg is not risking their...safety? lol

Every time the cop misses hitting the suspect's leg, that bullet is going off into who knows where.

Basically you're saying that in order to minimize injury to someone who is enough of a threat to warrant the application of lethal force, you're willing to risk someone being hit by a stray round.

[ercchry]

so many people here that have no experience with severe trauma... every hear of a little thing called adrenaline? takes a while to wear off... enough time to do some damage for sure

[spikerS]

aiming and shooting for an officer is a life or death situation, or at least it should be. They are trained to shoot for center mass to the point it becomes second nature, and they don't have to think, just react.

In the time it takes the officer to judge where to shoot someone, aim for the much smaller target with a weapon that is not terribly accurate, is time wasted that risks the officer safety and anyone else around.

[Stealth22]

Originally posted by spikerS
aiming and shooting for an officer is a life or death situation, or at least it should be. They are trained to shoot for center mass to the point it becomes second nature, and they don't have to think, just react.

In the time it takes the officer to judge where to shoot someone, aim for the much smaller target with a weapon that is not terribly accurate, is time wasted that risks the officer safety and anyone else around.

The only cops that are trained and skilled enough to shoot a suspect in an extremity are SWAT snipers. And, well, they sort of get WAY more time to line up their target.

Like I said, its easy for any of us to armchair the situation. I was just talking about this same subject with a few guys at work yesterday. We were talking about the cop from Missouri; one of my coworkers is a retired CPS constable. He said, "Its easy for us to sit here and debate the situation, myself included, and I used to be a cop. In the courts, they'll debate over a case for months, but on the street, I get maybe a few seconds to make a decision."

I think he summed it up right there.

[E46..sTyLez]

Link to the video (sorry, I don't know how to embed):

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cleveland-...2323.html?vp=1

[BavarianBeast]

Originally posted by E46..sTyLez
Link to the video (sorry, I don't know how to embed):

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cleveland-...2323.html?vp=1

Holy shit. Poor kid. At least the Rice family asked that protests stay peaceful.

[E46..sTyLez]

Yea...I'm thinking they could have possibly avoided the shooting if they parked the car a little further away. When the driver pulled up, he put the passenger cop in a pretty shitty situation (who is 26 and has been a cop for less than a year).

[BavarianBeast]

Aren't cop car windows bullet-proof in the US? I could think of MANY different ways to approach this situation in a better manner than what was executed.