Calgary Flames New Arena Update

[rage2]

KK was throwing out World Class non stop through the presentation, like he was talking to Nenshi. A world class city and a world class arena such as MSG has 0 parking.

Of course, there's tons of shit around MSG, its surrounded by everything. Maybe 10 years after this is built West village will get to the point where it will be surrounded by stuff on 1 side.

I agree, very little parking sucks (we're talking 1500-2000 spaces). The accessibility by walking is the same as the dome, fucking sucks in the winter.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2
fucking sucks in the winter.

Lets all remember this fact as we argue about how parking isn't necessary. I swear some of my coldest experiences in life have been after flames games

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

I don't know how much traffic interruptions there will be, as they're not realigning Bow Trail at all. This is literally tearing down Greyhound and building a bunch of shit in that space. The only traffic headaches would be from building bridges and other access.

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by xnvy
I just want to pick out this sentence in your argument because while it is true that many places see no net benefit from holding large events, a prime example being Sochi, Calgary is the posterchild for places that do.

Calgary had a net surplus for the '88 Olympics which led to WinSport Canada, a world-class winter sports venue within city limits.


I don't get why they would go with a no parking setup with our transit system the way it currently is. I guess they're only concerned with selling tickets and not actually having anyone go to the games.

True, but that was in 1988. I don't think the same can happen today. The costs have sky rocketed in the last 30 years.

As for transit, don't worry, the new 4 car trains will make it a breeze

[asp integra]

I was in attendance at the presentation, cool to see it all outlined. There are some problems for sure, but I think the overall big picture of the project will work great for the city and be a great place for years to come. Hoping this moves forward soon!

[asp integra]

Originally posted by Nitro5


True, but that was in 1988. I don't think the same can happen today. The costs have sky rocketed in the last 30 years.

Vancouver made money too iirc, and thats only 5 years ago now. I think its best to hold events like the Olympics in a place where most of the infrastructure is already in place. It makes no sense to build all of these venues for 2-3 weeks of use and then have them sit empty after that. Look at all of the venues from '88, all are still in use, unlike Greece, Sochi and several other Olympic cities. I for one would strongly support Calgary making another Olympic bid, and I think there is a very good chance of us getting a 2nd Olympics in the not so distant future.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2
- $250m ticket tax, or a long term loan from the city/province. If we calculate 20k capacity, over a span of 10 years, it's $1250 per seat per season, or $30.50 per game per seat.

I'm sure we can spread that to include events other than the 40 games played there every year to keep it lower than $30/seat.

[rage2]

Nenshi posted his thoughts.

http://calgarymayor.ca/stories/mayor...house-proposal

The following is a statement from Mayor Naheed Nenshi regarding the "CalgaryNext" announcement made earlier today:

Today, the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation (the company that owns the Calgary Flames and Stampeders, among other professional sports teams) released an intriguing proposal for a new arena, sports fieldhouse, and football stadium. This project has been in the works for some time, and I am pleased that the Flames ownership group is now engaging the public on what they would like to see. I also appreciate that the ownership group has come forward with a definitive financial commitment—something that has rarely been seen in other cities.

However, there are a number of challenges that must now be addressed:

•The proposal has not been part of The City's comprehensive capital planning process, and does not form part of the plan, under which the City's capital funds are fully allocated through 2018.

•The proposal includes incorporating The City’s proposed (and much-needed) fieldhouse into the facility. However, that project, while a very high priority for the City, remains unfunded.

•The funding proposal includes a $250 million “ticket tax”, but it is unclear if The City will be asked to provide the upfront financing for this.

•The proposed site requires significant expenditures to remediate the environmental contamination there. That remediation is also unfunded.

•In addition, the proposal requires the contribution of land, a community revitalization levy and significant investments in infrastructure to make the West Village a complete and vibrant community.

Therefore, there are very significant requirements for public funding beyond the fieldhouse funding, and there is currently no money.

I have said for a long time—and continue to strongly believe—that public money must be for public benefit and not private profit. The question for Council, the ownership group, and all Calgarians is whether this proposal meets that test.

That said, I truly appreciate the efforts of the ownership group in bringing forward an innovative project in a thoughtful, professional, and ethical way. I firmly believe that these Calgarians want to do something exceptional for our community.

City Council will ensure that that there is significant public engagement and will work cooperatively with the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation and the other orders of government to determine whether this project is viable.


-Mayor Naheed Nenshi

Damn, I covered and agreed on every point. WTF I'm turning into a Nensheep.

[killramos]

AKA Nenshi tells the flames to pound sand and buy their own new stadium.

[dezmarez]

Agree 100% with Nenshi.

Eric Francis just asked about what revenue would be returned to the city from concessions, parking, tickets etc.
Ken dodged it and didn't really give an answer.
Would imagine all revenue generated from the facility would go to the Flames, while they pay a flat lease payment like you or I would pay to rent a commercial space.

[dezmarez]

Also, I love how they are patting themselves on the back about putting in $200M of their own funds and talking about how unprecedented it is.

Any small business owner would know that even on a leased space you will need to do leasehold improvements to convert the space into a usable space that is unique for your own business.

Wouldn't this be similar?

Also, pretty sure that $200M would also come with a nice depreciable cost for the Flames.

[kenny]

Only thing this whole proposal is missing is a world class pedestrian/bicycle bridge across the river aligning with 17th street. With that you'd have Druh and her army on board.

[you&me]

Originally posted by dezmarez
Also, I love how they are patting themselves on the back about putting in $200M of their own funds and talking about how unprecedented it is.

Any small business owner would know that even on a leased space you will need to do leasehold improvements to convert the space into a usable space that is unique for your own business.

Wouldn't this be similar?

Also, pretty sure that $200M would also come with a nice depreciable cost for the Flames.

It's not normal for a tenant to put ~20% of the value of the property into leaseholds though...

[rage2]

I don't think we've put up any money. We've always been able to have our renovations fully funded on a 6 year term.

Granted, our office isn't exactly baller looking haha.

[gwill]

Originally posted by dino_martini
Ticket tax? Tickets for the Flames are already too expensive.

They'll almost all double in price in a new arena

[rage2]

I wonder if it's possible to connect the +15 all the way there in the future. I'd be more open to walking it if it was indoors. It's about the equivalent of walking to Scotia Center from my office.

[dezmarez]

I used to do Busines Financing and you would be surprised how many Leasehold Improvement loans I did that well exceeded 20% of the property value.
Keep in mind these weren't office space locations, they were typically restaurants, manufacturing type of companies that required a decent amount of work to prepare the property.

My frustration is with the "pat on the back" they are giving themselves for putting up $200M.

There are multiple ways for Private companies to raise capital, but that also comes with risk. The Flames are essentially going to put up $200M and be able to keep whatever revenue they generate off of the property with limited risk. That includes non-hockey related events because the facility is managed by the Flames.

Not to mention the ability to write off the depreciation of that $200M over time.

[kenny]

Originally posted by rage2
I wonder if it's possible to connect the +15 all the way there in the future. I'd be more open to walking it if it was indoors. It's about the equivalent of walking to Scotia Center from my office.

you + walk anywhere =

[eglove]

Originally posted by kenny


you + walk anywhere =

I can see Rage on one of those u-wheels things