Calgary Flames New Arena Update

[My_name_is_Rob]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Atlanta Flames it is?

I personally think Regina Flames has more of a ring to it. Plus they have a very dedicated following when it comes to sports teams in Sask.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by kertejud2


The city already owns the land, and it already owns a building. A new arena just brings the value of the other to effectively zero and gives up potential revenue from a land sale, and owning the building gives up future property tax revenue. So there's that.

Then there is the tune of $440M that directly has to come from the city (more than Edmonton was asking for), half of which is part of a CRL that won't get funded (unlike Edmonton) so it will have to be made up from the general revenue meaning operation costs have to go down or tax revenue needs to increase. More importantly, that CRL can't then go to infrastructure changes, improvements or remediation, which brings the project cost to well over a billion dollars and the city's required contribution close to 10 figures assuming the lower end of those costs. Same thing, that money has to come from somewhere when the CRL doesn't generate enough money on its own.

» Click image for larger version
Ahhhh....I see.

I don't actually. Way above my pay grade...but neither do I care.
I want a shiny new venue to see good concerts.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Can anyone show us numbers of economic benefit of a pro hockey team?

Apparently Ottawa Senators brings in $3B in 25 years, 1/2 of it direct.

Say Flames have similar impact. How much of that $3B can be converted into income for CoC? Whatever that income is, that's the budget of stadium. Problem solved?

If that isn't enough money, Atlanta Flames it is?

Ideally, I rather have some provincial money and give us a new stadium like Edmonton but that's political suicide right now for any politicians committing to a stadium, doesn't matter at which level.

An important note here is that the Senators arena was privately funded.

It also has shown that building an arena in the suburbs is a recipe for disaster (the Sens are already looking to replace it with a downtown arena).

[speedog]

Originally posted by riander5


How much is the SE ring road going to cost? I never use the fucking ring road. I dont bitch about it though. Build the arena!

SE section of Stoney Trail cost $769 million. I don't use the road in front of your house, maybe that shouldn't have been built then either. SW section currently projected to cost $1.42 billion, the SE section I use on occasion and it is quite nice as it allows me to avoid all the congested stuff farther in. Time is money, eh, and time saved on the ring road is all good.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by speedog


SE section of Stoney Trail cost $769 million. I don't use the road in front of your house, maybe that shouldn't have been built then either. SW section currently projected to cost $1.42 billion, the SE section I use on occasion and it is quite nice as it allows me to avoid all the congested stuff farther in. Time is money, eh, and time saved on the ring road is all good.

Ring road is the new Deerfoot. I don't know how I lived without it.

I hope the purple penis doesn't cave to the billioanairs begging for tax payer money.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Gestalt
Ring road is the new Deerfoot. I don't know how I lived without it.

I hope the purple penis doesn't cave to the billioanairs begging for tax payer money.

You were so close dude! Nothing about the way you spelt billionaire caught your eye "funny"? I'll give you a pass on taxpayer being one word not two.

[Gestalt]

It's my phone, it's killing me. If I have auto correct on,it always puts in the wrong word, and I miss it. So I turn it off, and then fat fingers get me. Sorry Miss Gordon.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Gestalt
It's my phone, it's killing me. If I have auto correct on,it always puts in the wrong word, and I miss it. So I turn it off, and then fat fingers get me. Sorry Miss Gordon.

There's an "edit" button

[rage2]

Council looking to add an amendment to squash CalgaryNEXT for good so that they can focus on Plan B and not be distracted as part of today's Plan B update. Awaiting vote now...

[vengie]

If plan B is approved, how much of a boost will property values in the area see?

[rage2]

There's nothing about approving Plan B. It's literally just a short update on potential site and to say it's viable for further study. City doesn't even own that land, it's owned by stampede, and they suggested a land swap deal (saddledome sits on city land).

[rage2]

Amendment doesn't pass. CalgaryNEXT paused, but still alive haha.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by vengie
If plan B is approved, how much of a boost will property values in the area see?

None?

This is just a 1 for 1 replacement as far as I know. Not a large development like CalgaryNEXT. And I don't think East Village is getting the traction expected anyway due to the down turn.

Originally posted by rage2
Amendment doesn't pass. CalgaryNEXT paused, but still alive haha.

Election year, don't want to be labelled as member that chase the Flames out of town I guess.

[roopi]

Originally posted by Gestalt


I hope the purple penis doesn't cave to the billioanairs begging for tax payer money.

For some reason I'm craving a donair now.

[NoSup4U]

Originally posted by roopi


For some reason I'm craving a donair now.

So random, but thanks, now I am as well

[rage2]

For those not old enough to remember what happened in Seattle with the Supersonics, it's a great documentary.



Hopefully this will never happen to us, but you can draw a lot of parallels to the situation that we're in today. Even some of the comments from people opposed to any public funding in this thread sound eerily familiar.

[riander5]

Originally posted by speedog


SE section of Stoney Trail cost $769 million. I don't use the road in front of your house, maybe that shouldn't have been built then either. SW section currently projected to cost $1.42 billion, the SE section I use on occasion and it is quite nice as it allows me to avoid all the congested stuff farther in. Time is money, eh, and time saved on the ring road is all good.

I dont use any of the ring roads. Yet I have no choice in funding billion of dollars of them. I go to the saddledome quite often. What is your point?

I know people contributing to urban sprawl who need a 400 sqft backyard in evanston would rather have the ring road then a new rink. I've already paid my chunk for their convenience of living in the boonies, so im totally fine with using some of my taxes to contribute to something that might actually have relevance to me. Im just taking the opposite stand of everyone who complains they dont use the dome

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by rage2

Hopefully this will never happen to us

Why? A business decision is a business decision, why the public should support millionaires skating around boggles the mind, but I digress.

Further

On March 4, 2008, the citizens of Oklahoma City passed a $121.6 million initiative designed to renovate and expand the Chesapeake Energy Arena and to build a practice facility for the relocated Seattle SuperSonics team which is now known as the Oklahoma City Thunder. Financing consists of a temporary 15-month, 1-cent sales tax that will be paid by Oklahoma City residents and shoppers beginning January 1, 2009. The city held the temporary tax initiative in March 2008 to facilitate the relocation of the NBA's Seattle SuperSonics or another relocation franchise. It is expected that the refurbishment will turn the Chesapeake Energy Arena into a top-tier NBA facility. Some of the planned upgrades to the Chesapeake Energy Arena include upscale restaurants, clubs, additional suites (including so-called 'bunker suites'), office space, Kid's Zone, additional concessions, flooring upgrades, an integrated video and scoring system from Daktronics, view lounges, and upgraded 'general use' locker rooms.[12] NBA specific amenities include 'NBA ONLY' locker rooms and facilities, a practice court, media broadcast facilities, lighting, and sound, an NBA press room, an onsite NBA and team store, and ticket/staff rooms.[13] It is anticipated that the Oklahoma City Thunder team will lease the new office space. Renovation work on the arena was delayed due to a sales tax receipt shortfall during the 2008–10 economic crisis; eventual tax receipts totaled $103.5 million rather than the projected $121 million.[14] The shortfall was accommodated by revising plans for certain features of the arena expansion project, including limiting the size of a new glass entryway, and eliminating a practice court planned for above the delivery entrance of the arena.[15] Major construction work on the arena expansion was also delayed from the summer of 2010 to the summer of 2011. Similar revisions were made to the plans for the Thunder's separate practice facility, for a total cost savings of approximately $14 million.[16] The Thunder's practice facility completion date was similarly pushed back to approximately March 2011.[17]

$100mil versus $1bil + being on the books is a liiiiitttttllllleeee different. And it was a one time tax, AND they cut back when they didn't raise the complete funding originally detailed. Holy fuck, fiscal discipline Who does that anymore? And in that $100mil they got a practice facility, which presumably can be used by others. Starting to not look so bad.

Now, it says that they only pay the city $1.3mil, and the facility is completely owned by the city, and that the city built it for $90mil. Still a pretty shitty deal, being into a building for $200mil that will never see it paid back by the team. So $200mil so people can pay the most expensive tickets in the NBA (true story) to go watch people throw a ball around?

Yea, now that's good ROI

[suntan]

Originally posted by riander5


I dont use any of the ring roads. Yet I have no choice in funding billion of dollars of them. I go to the saddledome quite often. What is your point?

I know people contributing to urban sprawl who need a 400 sqft backyard in evanston would rather have the ring road then a new rink. I've already paid my chunk for their convenience of living in the boonies, so im totally fine with using some of my taxes to contribute to something that might actually have relevance to me. Im just taking the opposite stand of everyone who complains they dont use the dome

Ring road: Used to transport goods in and out of Calgary. Will be useful until Jebus comes back.

New arena: In 25 years, whine again about new arena being needed.

[ExtraSlow]

Maybe I missed it, but have there been any details of this Victoria Park "Plan B" released to the pubic other than location?