Calgary Flames New Arena Update

[never]

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How far outside the city do I need to move to stop paying CoC taxes...

I don’t pay CoC taxes but have Flames season tickets...I must be the one of the few people adding to the local economy!

[Disoblige]

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vic park, just north of the current one

I wonder if this will help with the condo prices over the next decade. Literally some condos there are going to be right in front of the arena.

[killramos]

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I don’t pay CoC taxes but have Flames season tickets...I must be the one of the few people adding to the local economy!

I would have rather paid more for flames tickets

[95EagleAWD]

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I wonder if this will help with the condo prices over the next decade. Literally some condos there are going to be right in front of the arena.

I imagine they’re gonna go up. If Edmonton is any indicator, that arena actually was a huge part of the new development downtown.

[rage2]

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I imagine they’re gonna go up. If Edmonton is any indicator, that arena actually was a huge part of the new development downtown.

The difference is, we're already subsiding the Rivers District buildout, with or without the arena there.

[Misterman]

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I imagine they’re gonna go up. If Edmonton is any indicator, that arena actually was a huge part of the new development downtown.

If Edmonton is any indicator, you'll have a flood of new condos drag the values down and be waiting on the economy to return.

[kertejud2]

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If you really want to see what really hurts our operational budget, look no further than the Rivers District (East Village) CRL. That is literally operational money taken away from Calgarians and fed back into East Village. The library, the bridges, the underpass (that 4th street underpass was $70m) and the upcoming $80m parkade comes straight from tax revenue earmarked for operations. Is the gentrification of East Village worth it? Maybe, but it's definitely not as vibrant as promised. It's still pretty dead down there most of the time, save for special events in the area. $400m into there so far that "encourages private investment" aka funding billionaires, and on track zoom pass $1b with a 20m extension approved this year. Currently assessments have grown $900m residentially, and $1.2b non residential, which at todays tax rate and assuming no more growth takes away $32.5m a year from our budget. Every single year. Until 2047. How's that library sound now? As assessments grow, that tax taken away from us grows. If you want to blame our services getting cut, this is the one that hits us way the hell harder than an arena. @kertejud2 can correct my math, it's all approximated on mobile here.

You're lumping the province's take into that $32.5M. The province generously forfeited their claim on that money during the CRL period, which is one of the perks about them for a city. It also only affects the new development, with the argument being that private investment wouldn't come without that investment. Any previous existing tax revenue goes into general coffers. This argument holds some water in the case of the River's District as a major use of the CRL was for remediation which was a major hurdle for private investment in the area (in addition to general infrastructure upgrades). So the city is only 'giving up' $25.1M per year, but it is getting ~$7.4M/year more than it would in any other area with that increased valuation. At the end of the levy period, that $25.1M still goes back into general city revenue with the assumption being that it wouldn't have existed in the first place without that grace period of directing property tax to fund capital upgrade loans so it would be a net gain for city revenue in the end.

If a CRL doesn't fund itself, that's when it is indeed robbing from the rest of the city, and that doesn't look to be the case with the Rivers District (albeit they basically cheated by including The Bow site into it, but a funded CRL is better than an unfunded one).

[Buster]

CRLs (and TIFsin general) are just a way to manipulate (easily manipulated) citizens.

"If we only fix this blight, then otherwise locked away investments will flood into the city!"

[suntan]

We will never be Detroit. Detroit died because cities in the USA can offer their own debt. Luckily the morons that run our cities aren't allowed to do that.

[R-Audi]

I believe the Flames would have been gone within a 5-10 year span without a new rink, at least with this plan the city could come close to breaking even. While not perfect, Im gald its done and we can all move on. (Until it goes over budget and causes more ruckus.. but who knows if that will be made public.)

[Disoblige]

My other hope is that since this is approved, there will be some motivation (sub-cautiously or not) to try to build an arena even better than Edmonton's

I don't want no arena where people go "Yeah Calgary built a new arena and it's alright, but not as good as Edmonton's".

[never]

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I would have rather paid more for flames tickets

Pretty sure that'll happen too!

[killramos]

True story.

Coles notes, whenever the City of Calgary is involved, expect to pay more

[kertejud2]

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CRLs (and TIFsin general) are just a way to manipulate (easily manipulated) citizens.

"If we only fix this blight, then otherwise locked away investments will flood into the city!"

Encouraging investment in an area is what will fix blight, not the other way around. I don't expect you to understand the difference, though.

[suntan]

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My other hope is that since this is approved, there will be some motivation (sub-cautiously or not) to try to build an arena even better than Edmonton's

I don't want no arena where people go "Yeah Calgary built a new arena and it's alright, but not as good as Edmonton's".

Edmonton's new arena is a piece of shit. Lots of bathrooms though and the second tier is up about where the nosebleeds are in the Saddledome, so it's good for the owners.

[Buster]

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Encouraging investment in an area is what will fix blight, not the other way around. I don't expect you to understand the difference, though.

Encouraging is fine. Get out yer pom poms

[msommers]

So for those against this happening meanwhile your counsellor voted Yes, is that enough for you to turf them next election?

[ExtraSlow]

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So for those against this happening meanwhile your counsellor voted Yes, is that enough for you to turf them next election?

Honestly, we should turf pretty much every Councillor and start fresh. Rookies could hard fuck up this city more.

[suntan]

Woolley is an interesting case. Came in as a hyper-progressive and rather positive, seems like he's slowly starting to realize that all of council and the mayor are on the take. Will probably be booted out next term.

[Brent.ff]

I think my favorite was this morning and Nenshi saying that 'the 2017 election was really a plebiscite on the stadium'... But he was against it during that election, and won.. soooooo wtf