Calgary Flames New Arena Update

[ExtraSlow]

Who does the grandstanding things?

[kertejud2]

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how about the city does city things, and the entertainment companies do entertainment things.

ffs this isn't that complicated.

Edmonton ruined it. Calgarians want a new arena and have bought into the idea cities need to help build them.

[ExtraSlow]

I don't think Edmonton did anything innovative there.

[Buster]

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Edmonton ruined it. Calgarians want a new arena and have bought into the idea cities need to help build them.

Trust Edmonton to be behind the trend. All the cool kid cities are now telling these teams to go fuck themselves.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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I don't think Edmonton did anything innovative there.

Well, I guess it's back to the mission of making Kert red by Xmas-2022.
We have the resources. We just need a unified agreement.

[kertejud2]

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I don't think Edmonton did anything innovative there.

For Canada they did.

Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, and Winnipeg we’re all privately funded and built.

Toronto and Montreal even had to pay full property taxes on their rinks for a while. The Habs were paying more than $8M a year in property tax before they negotiated a deal with the city. Kanata wouldn’t build an off ramp from the highway to the Corel Centre when it was built because they felt it was the Senators’ problem.

But leave it to the Alberta teams to be all about the corporate welfare.

[Buster]

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For Canada they did.

Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, and Winnipeg we’re all privately funded and built.

Toronto and Montreal even had to pay full property taxes on their rinks for a while. The Habs were paying more than $8M a year in property tax before they negotiated a deal with the city. Kanata wouldn’t build an off ramp from the highway to the Corel Centre when it was built because they felt it was the Senators’ problem.

But leave it to the Alberta teams to be all about the corporate welfare.

I feel dirty

[flipstah]

Which one is the Montreal Biodome thing? That’s an arena right?

[jutes]

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Which one is the Montreal Biodome thing? That’s an arena right?

That’s the poutine multiplex and they play exhibition baseball there.

[kertejud2]

I guess those cities aren’t entirely off the hook. They’ve sunk loads of public money into the Big O, BMO Field, BC Place, Investors Group Field and the other stadiums there wasn’t any business case for. Skydome’s funding structure is worth a deep dive for how batshit crazy it was as well.

But when it comes to arenas with pro hockey teams? Economics always won out.

[redline]

What economics is that ? Rich get richer and fuck the poor ?

[Tik-Tok]

I look forward to the announcement of a great deal with an all new partner to build the arena and entertainment district in a new location that will benefit all of YYC.

[jutes]

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I guess those cities aren’t entirely off the hook. They’ve sunk loads of public money into the Big O, BMO Field, BC Place, Investors Group Field and the other stadiums there wasn’t any business case for. Skydome’s funding structure is worth a deep dive for how batshit crazy it was as well.

But when it comes to arenas with pro hockey teams? Economics always won out.

Between Covid, finding trades people, finding materials and the climate emergency, timing for a new arena can’t be worse. Looking at the reno thread with those cost overruns on relatively minor projects in comparison, any delays could mean the total cost could balloon into the $B. Factor in the bow river flooding at least once before completion.

GM place in Vancouver cost $160m (LOL) to build back in 1996.

[jutes]

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I look forward to the announcement of a great deal with an all new partner to build the arena and entertainment district in a new location that will benefit all of YYC.

[]

Thats for the new hangars for the F-35s

[OTown]

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Jesus, if the flames won't pay half, we'll make them pay . . . less? Wicked negotiating!

Who could have thought an adjunct assistant professor at the U of C school of business would have such wise business sense!

Gondek brings years of experience in academia, consulting, and public service to her role as mayor.

At the Haskayne School of Business, Gondek worked as an adjunct assistant professor until the election and also served as director of the new Westman Centre for Real Estate Studies from 2014 to 2017 before being elected to city council.

https://ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-ele...r-jyoti-gondek

[rc2002]

Sounds like this deal collapsing is a good thing in the long run for taxpayers (per taxpayers federation).

https://globalnews.ca/news/8488592/j...rena-deal/amp/

If Nenshi’s administration did proper consultation the first time instead of just ramming this through, they probably could have arrived at this outcome a lot sooner.

I bet the majority of Calgarians are happy with this outcome and Gondek’s popularity has gone up as a result.

[mr2mike]

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What ever happened with that? Based on your phrasing, she didn't get away with it?

Don't know. Seems to have gone very quiet. I think I'll email my ward and see.

[dimi]

So I assume now they're gonna piss the same amount of money away renovating the saddledome?

[killramos]

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So I assume now they're gonna piss the same amount of money away renovating the saddledome?

A giant monument to settler culture? Doubtful

[rage2]

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Your deal has the city paying hundreds of millions more for nothing extra in return.

My deal was an example of how stupid it would be for the city to build and rent it out without giving away money to a business.

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For Canada they did.

Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, and Winnipeg we’re all privately funded and built.

Toronto and Montreal even had to pay full property taxes on their rinks for a while. The Habs were paying more than $8M a year in property tax before they negotiated a deal with the city. Kanata wouldn’t build an off ramp from the highway to the Corel Centre when it was built because they felt it was the Senators’ problem.

But leave it to the Alberta teams to be all about the corporate welfare.

Toronto is a huge market with massive corporate interests in pro sports that they can have massive seat licenses and huge ticket prices to make it work. Seat owners were forced to buy NHL and NBA tickets, enough money to sustain raptors when they were shit. Totally different league there. I mean the naming rights alone was worth $800m. They’re printing money over there.

Montreal was built by the Molson family. Huge losses, forced to sell the team.

Vancouver had NHL and NBA but the finances was still so bad the owner had to sell his interests in bankruptcy because he couldn’t make it work.

Ottawa, don’t know the details, but they also went bankrupt and sold off.

Winnipeg has (and still has) government funding via a share of VLT terminals profits. Initially at $40m, then eventually upped to $140m with additional VLT machines because true north was having problems paying down the construction debt.

So yea, exception of Toronto which has a big enough market size that can pull it off, every one of your examples failed and went bankrupt or needed a bailout.