Calgary Flames New Arena Update

[suntan]

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Well then my Aldermen is an idiot because his response to my question about that exact topic was that the operating and capital budgets are separate and funds cannot be transferred from one to the other. Obviously we elected a naive CalgaryPuck poster that knows less then the average beyonder. I will make sure to email him back and tell him that he is misinformed about his job.

There's nothing really stopping them from moving money around other than their own laziness.

Unless you think financial budgets are governed by the laws of nature.

[D'z Nutz]

Following a presentation by the negotiating team and several hours of debate, the vote on council was 11-4 in favour of ratifying the deal:

For (11): Naheed Nenshi, Ward Sutherland, Joe Magliocca, Jyoti Gondek, Sean Chu, Jeff Davison, Gian-Carlo Carra, Ray Jones, Shane Keating, Diane Colley-Urquhart and Peter Demong
Against (4): George Chahal, Druh Farrell, Evan Woolley and Jeromy Farkas

[msommers]

Huh, even Chu is on board.

[Tik-Tok]

Yay! Even higher taxes! Even less services!

[Thaco]

cut city workers from essential services but approve a handout to a bunch of whiny billionaires... does not compute

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

This city is fucked.

[Buster]

no no, guys you have it all wrong. This will boost the economy!

[ThePenIsMightier]

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no no, guys you have it all wrong. This will boost the economy!

Yes! Finally someone gets it!
One has to calculate the direct, indirect and tertiary benefits of monetary, intangible, societal and inter-tangential benefits to fully realize the benefits. It's like the Underpants Gnomes.
Soon, Paris Fashion Week will simply move here, followed by FIFA World Cup and the Sistine Chapel leading the way ahead of Apple Headquarters and Mt. Fuji.

[Thaco]

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Yes! Finally someone gets it!
One has to calculate the direct, indirect and tertiary benefits of monetary, intangible, societal and inter-tangential benefits to fully realize the benefits. It's like the Underpants Gnomes.
Soon, Paris Fashion Week will simply move here, followed by FIFA World Cup and the Sistine Chapel leading the way ahead of Apple Headquarters and Mt. Fuji.

i hope they at least have non-discriminatory bathrooms...

[Buster]

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Yes! Finally someone gets it!
One has to calculate the direct, indirect and tertiary benefits of monetary, intangible, societal and inter-tangential benefits to fully realize the benefits. It's like the Underpants Gnomes.
Soon, Paris Fashion Week will simply move here, followed by FIFA World Cup and the Sistine Chapel leading the way ahead of Apple Headquarters and Mt. Fuji.

People forget that most of the Flames season ticket holders are from Nunavut. So we are injecting cash into the local economy when they come here for games

[rage2]

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There's nothing really stopping them from moving money around other than their own laziness.

Unless you think financial budgets are governed by the laws of nature.

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Yay! Even higher taxes! Even less services!

As a season ticket holder and a frequent concert goer, it's great news. But that's where it ends. I don't think we should be doing this now.

First things first, let's clear up the above quotes. In terms of capital budgets vs operational budgets, yea, not a good idea to spend capital money on operations. That's just bad business heading towards the end, and I’m assuming legal barriers against the city doing it. With that said, there are ways to spend capital money on operations. such as investing in an term fund, but realistically you're tying up that capital, which is a rainy day capital fund, and you wouldn't want to tie that down long term. Also, throwing the rainy day fund there would net you at most $10m a year, hardly a dent on the $60m/year cut. That argument's toast.

If you really want to see what really hurts our operational budget, look no further than the Rivers District (East Village) CRL. That is literally operational money taken away from Calgarians and fed back into East Village. The library, the bridges, the underpass (that 4th street underpass was $70m) and the upcoming $80m parkade comes straight from tax revenue earmarked for operations. Is the gentrification of East Village worth it? Maybe, but it's definitely not as vibrant as promised. It's still pretty dead down there most of the time, save for special events in the area. $400m into there so far that "encourages private investment" aka funding billionaires, and on track zoom pass $1b with a 20m extension approved this year. Currently assessments have grown $900m residentially, and $1.2b non residential, which at todays tax rate and assuming no more growth takes away $32.5m a year from our budget. Every single year. Until 2047. How's that library sound now? As assessments grow, that tax taken away from us grows. If you want to blame our services getting cut, this is the one that hits us way the hell harder than an arena. @kertejud2 can correct my math, it's all approximated on mobile here.

Back to the arena, it's all part of building of the entertainment district. Why do I feel it's a bad time now? With so much uncertainty into the future of Alberta, if the energy sector doesn't recover (and even if it does it won't be permanent) or we don't find a replacement, and I hate to make this comparison but we are just like Detroit. Which is ironic, because Detroit went and built an entertainment district centered by the publicly funded Little Caesar's Arena to revitalize Detroit. Guess how that's turned out?

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...oit-delivering

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...ge/3638613002/

Yes we need a new arena at some point, but until we can fix our future, it's going to be a capital project that becomes underutilized, and a waste of money. Sure lucky folks like me that can afford to go to events, it’s great, but for anyone in the energy sector that’s been cut should be downright pissed off at the arena, at the CRL 20 year extension. That money could have been better served to invest in capital needs, not wants. Can't believe I'm saying this but that money would have been better served spent on the green line. Sure it might mean that we don't have a hockey team, but a budget strapped city where families have less and less disposable income today, does it really matter?

Anyways, I hope I'm wrong. I hope everyone's ordering double meat in Alberta at some point, and that blowing all this money on the CRL and Arena is the right choice.

/rant

[Buster]

The economics on this have been long long past settled. But people continue to believe silly things.

It's where the rubber hits the road on the economic illiteracy of those who believe in a govt multiplier effect.

[Disoblige]

Let's face it. We're Caltroit.

[Thaco]

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The economics on this have been long long past settled. But people continue to believe silly things.

It's where the rubber hits the road on the economic illiteracy of those who believe in a govt multiplier effect.

flames believe in the multiplier... they've been getting a free ride for so long how can they take anything less?

[Buster]

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Let's face it. We're Caltroit.

The difference is that Detroit's situation was a result of normal market forces whereas Alberta's situation was imposed by a distant government and the people who voted for them

[shakalaka]

Maybe if they put this much effort on making the team better, this would be more welcoming news.

[killramos]

How far outside the city do I need to move to stop paying CoC taxes...

[Thaco]

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I don't wanna read the thread and all that so someone just tell me - where is the new arena gonna be built?

vic park, just north of the current one

[shakalaka]

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vic park, just north of the current one

Thanks. Yes, I noticed the tweet on top of the page right after I posted that so amended my post accordingly.

[Thaco]

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The difference is that Detroit's situation was a result of normal market forces whereas Alberta's situation was imposed by a distant government and the people who voted for them

lol, global recession and USA invading iraq and afghanistan for oil is within Calgary's control.