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Thread: CBSA demands for phone and laptop passwords about to be tested.

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    Default CBSA demands for phone and laptop passwords about to be tested.

    This is one thing that I have always been a bit uncomfortable with. The CBSA has always extended the ability to searching your "goods" like luggage and personal items with impunity, with very thin reasons to do so, that reasons for never see the public light.

    A Canadian resident was stopped in Halifax after returning from the DR. All of his belongings were searched, but he refused to give up the password for his smart phone, and as such, has been charged with obstruction. The CBSA is using laws from the customs act to perform their duties, and are not subject to the same rules that out police forces and CSIS are.

    Should you be compelled to assist in a search of your belongings? Should the CBSA have to identify WHY you have been chosen? Should you have rights during this process? The ability to have legal council present?

    Just interesting thoughts. Personally for me, the only things I have any concern for is company documents that are on my device, and any nudies I have of Baygirl...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...word-1.2982236

    The case of a Quebec man charged with obstructing border officials by refusing to give up his smartphone password has raised a new legal question in Canada, a law professor says.

    Alain Philippon, 38, of Ste-Anne-des-Plaines, Que., refused to divulge his cellphone password to Canada Border Services Agency during a customs search Monday night at Halifax Stanfield International Airport.

    Philippon had arrived in Halifax on a flight from Puerto Plata in the Dominican Republic. He's been charged under section 153.1 (b) of the Customs Act for hindering or preventing border officers from performing their role under the act.

    According to the CBSA, the minimum fine for the offence is $1000, with a maximum fine of $25,000 and the possibility of a year in jail.

    The CBSA wouldn't say why Philippon was selected for a smartphone search.

    In an email, a border services spokesperson wrote, "Officers are trained in examination, investigative and questioning techniques. To divulge our approach may render our techniques ineffective. Officers are trained to look for indicators of deception and use a risk management approach in determining which goods may warrant a closer look."​

    Rob Currie, director of the Law and Technology Institute at the Schulich School of Law at Dalhousie University, said that under Canadian law, travellers crossing the Canadian border have a reduced expectation of privacy.

    He said border officials have wide-ranging powers to search travellers and their belongings.

    "Under the Customs Act, customs officers are allowed to inspect things that you have, that you're bringing into the country," he told CBC News. "The term used in the act is 'goods,' but that certainly extends to your cellphone, to your tablet, to your computer, pretty much anything you have."

    Philippon has been released on bail, and will return to court in Dartmouth on May 12 for election and plea.

    Not tested yet in court

    Currie said the issue of whether a traveller must reveal a password to an electronic device at the border hasn’t been tested by a court.

    "This is a question that has not been litigated in Canada, whether they can actually demand you to hand over your password to allow them to unlock the device," he said. "[It's] one thing for them to inspect it, another thing for them to compel you to help them."

    Currie said the obstruction case hinges on that distinction.

    "It's not clear in Canadian law whether they can demand the password in order to unlock the phone," he said. "So whether he's guilty of obstruction depends on that, and it's not something that's been litigated before our courts yet. So a very interesting one to watch."
    I ask this as I am constantly watching shows like Border patrol and Border security, and it has always kinda shocked me just how much power the CBSA agents have, over and above normal law enforcement, and what appears to be a complete lack of checks and balances...
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    i have nothing to hide, but every single time I've gone through the border. I delete my messages/remove my email accounts.

    Pictures? i have nothing to hide, yes some might be personal but not illegal.

    The story is that he got charged, yes. Did they explain why they decided to search him? Was he being a douche?

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    Yeah, if there is anything I have learned from those shows, is remove EVERYTHING from them, regardless if I have anything to hide or not. Something you might think is innocent, might be a big deal to a bored agent...
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    Very good that this is going to be tested. One of the bigger things for me is using a work phone. If they ask me for the password I am not actually at liberty to provide it. I don't own the information.

    Is that obstruction?



    They really should have to have probably cause. Even if it is loose. Like someone being evasive, acting nervous. trying to conceal a device from search etc.

    The bigger question is how much valuable information have CBSA really gleaned from searching personal devices?

    Aside from text messages which indicate people are planning to work which is bascially 80% of the cases in that TV show?
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    So guy acts suspicious gets taken to secondary assessment, is still suspicious.. has to have his phone checked

    Don't want your phone checked? Don't be an idiot.

    It's not like they are going to start checking every persons phone.

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    Lmao at anyone voting conservative. I would never vote for Harper based on shit like this.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03...n_6801058.html

    Fear mongering, systematically dismantling personal freedoms, spying, ass-backwards approach to drug enforcement. Feels like Canada is going down the gutter in a lot of ways.
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    Originally posted by lasimmon
    So guy acts suspicious gets taken to secondary assessment, is still suspicious.. has to have his phone checked

    Don't want your phone checked? Don't be an idiot.

    It's not like they are going to start checking every persons phone.
    Ending up in secondary could be something as simple as a departing country. May not have anything to do with the person themselves.

    Originally posted by zipdoa
    Lmao at anyone voting conservative. I would never vote for Harper based on shit like this.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03...n_6801058.html

    Fear mongering, systematically dismantling personal freedoms, spying, ass-backwards approach to drug enforcement. Feels like Canada is going down the gutter in a lot of ways.
    Yea, the Cons have a great fiscal policy (macro economics was Hapers speciality) but with sometimes RETARDED social policy (eg prositution laws).

    Why cant we have a moderate social Cons party?

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    For residents and citizens, I say no unless they have reasons to believe that I may have something hiding in my electronic devices. Sweating is not a valid reason, I may like my kung pow spicy.

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    dare i ask that we keep the conversation to the real topic of the thread before thales catches wind of your posts and torpedoes the thread? There's 50 harper is a fascist threads on here and this is an interesting topic.

    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    Originally posted by killramos
    Very good that this is going to be tested. One of the bigger things for me is using a work phone. If they ask me for the password I am not actually at liberty to provide it. I don't own the information.

    Is that obstruction?



    They really should have to have probably cause. Even if it is loose. Like someone being evasive, acting nervous. trying to conceal a device from search etc.

    The bigger question is how much valuable information have CBSA really gleaned from searching personal devices?

    Aside from text messages which indicate people are planning to work which is bascially 80% of the cases in that TV show?
    You'd probably be in the same boat as this guy. You have CC&C of the device at the time, so it's on you to determine if you obstruct an agent in the lawful execution of their duties or comply with a company policy which probably takes this situation into account.

    These searches are happening at secondary, so you're already there for a reason, but the CBSA doesn't need reasonable grounds for search anyway (some of the reasoning can be found in v Simmons). The authority of the CBSA to conduct these searches has already been ruled on by the courts (v. Leask) and found that the CBSA does have the authority to search electronic devices. It's also been ruled that you should be declaring goods purchased in Canada, taken to the US and then brought back when you return.

    The valuable information the get from these searches at secondary screening relates to immigration violations, the work stuff you mentioned and serious CC-C violations for drugs and child porn.
    Last edited by FraserB; 03-05-2015 at 12:43 PM.
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    I can understand being more scruitiny on non residents of Canada. However, in Canada you are guaranteed some rights and freedoms that the CBSA has the ability to ignore.

    In fact, the CBSA has more power over you than any other Canadian Police force, or even CSIS.

    There also does not appear to be any checks and balances for how the CBSA operates, and in most cases, the CBSA operates outside of normal Canadian laws.

    As a person going through ANY of the CBSA processes, you do not have the right to have any kind of representation. Even during secondary or at any point past that until they hand the case over to the courts.

    I am going to be following this case closely. I don't mind keeping the country safe, but there needs to be some rules to what and how they do, as they can pretty much act with impunity.
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    CBSA did search my laptop once on a return trip from NY.

    I didn't care because the laptop was clean and is basically where I edit my photos from the trip. But agent was searching web cache folders and browser history and all. I was surprised they were trained. This were nice and professional throughout.

    CBSA also stopped me from a trip from CES. But they were too busy with the guys ahead of me and just wave me off. Those guys brought in way too many copies of porn DVDs in 2 giant duffle bags. I assume they got them from the porn convention and their are multiple copies of the same titles so intend for sale. They probably did not claim them. lol.

    Really, every time you cross an international border, you risk a full search. Don't bring anything that you do not want to share. But having a test case in front of the court is probably a good idea.

    There are many companies that has policy that company owned hardware cannot leave border.

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    I had the TSA search my laptop i had checked on the way back from Vegas ( i know i should know better but i felt lazy). They dented the fuck out of it to...

    They left a little note lol

    As for Company owned hardware i am required to have my phone with me and on when I'm in the US
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Originally posted by killramos
    As for Company owned hardware i am required to have my phone with me and on when I'm in the US
    Well, a lot of IT Security departments are not aware of the risk and simply decided to ignore it.

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    Originally posted by Xtrema
    There are many companies that has policy that company owned hardware cannot leave border.
    At my last employer our policy was that client files could not cross the border so we moved clean hardware across the border and pulled down anything we needed once we were onsite.

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    would an acceptable example on a phone be not caching emails on the device?

    delete the password from the exchange account and let them search the physical contents to their desire? Crossing the border doesnt give them free reign to download information onto the device.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    dang, i wonder what they would say if i they found my SD card with downloaded episodes that i watch on the plane. Do they charge you with copyright infringement?

    or do they ignore pirated media and only looking for child porn/bomb making guides/etc?

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    Titanium backup. Wipe. Flash ROM. Go through border. Restore backups.

    I love android.
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    Wipe. Go through border. Restore via iCloud.

    I love iPhone (2 steps vs 4).
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
    Titanium backup. Wipe. Flash ROM. Go through border. Restore backups.

    I love android.

    Originally posted by rage2
    Wipe. Go through border. Restore via iCloud.

    I love iPhone (2 steps vs 4).

    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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