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Thread: Calgary Police Service patrol rifle stolen during car prowling Saturday, April 4 2015

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by leftwing


    From the limited info, I for some reason feel like this was an inside job. I mean the chances of that particular car being broken into, in what I assume was a decently busy parking lot are pretty slim. And the fact that there was a fairly valuable rifle inside, which from the article sounds like shouldn't have even been there make it seem even more improbable.
    That was exactly my thoughts when I first read it. I mean coincidences happen, but come on.

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    Originally posted by Sophal


    Maybe read this http://globalnews.ca/news/1922229/pa...e-members-car/

    Edit
    If this was to happen to me I would be facing some serious charges. But I don't stop at shanks for wings and a beer on my way home from the range, like this sworn member.
    None of that info is part of the original Post and story which I was referring to. My guess thaT he had permission was wrong I guess

    Officer is not subject to the same transport regulations you are as I stated earlier because the carbine is police issued and not subject to the firearms act.

    As Fraser said. Departmental policy infraction. Not a crime.
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    Originally posted by FraserB


    Depends on the firearm.

    My ATT allows me to transport a firearm for which I am in legal possession of to any approved club or range in the province of Alberta or to international border crossings provided I have the proper US documentation as well. The departure and return points will be a point of storage identified to the CFP by the license holder.

    It states that transportation must be reasonably direct. There is no legal definition of reasonable direct and it can include getting gas, picking people up, stopping for food or stopping for the bathroom. All depends on the situation.

    By definition, it appears that the officer only broke department policy (if that), not any of the laws relating to firearms.
    So....are CPS members allowed to take full auto assault rifles home in the first place? And if so why?

    My biggest issue is the searches for it. Yeah the guy goofed, and got busted because his car got broken into, but the reaction of setting up roadblocks and searching everyone is the larger abuse/neglect of responsibility IMO. Not the misguided action of one, but a concerted effort of many. Organized warrantless searches initiated by the department.
    Last edited by frizzlefry; 04-05-2015 at 09:37 PM.

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    Last edited by 01RedDX; 10-02-2020 at 08:57 PM.

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    Wow, they just can't win...

    No idea if it's related - but when I lived in scenic acres, there were at least 3 ERT(?) members within the dog-walk distance. There were times - you'd see an unmarked suburban come tearing into the neighbourhood to pick someone up.

    Rifles aren't squad car material - Squad cars get shotguns no? With a rifle - you're talking tac/ert/swat/asirt/??? - I'm guessing those are assigned as they're sighted in to the individual officer's needs... And probably don't stray far from the officer, on or off shift (I'm guessing they're probably on-call even when off-duty).

    Shit happens... Yes, needs better security, no don't need to fire anyone over it. It was bloody midnight at crowfoot crossing - not 9pm on friday night in forest lawn...

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    The Colt C8 rifles used by CPS are semi-auto and equipped with an EOTech sight and flashlight, you can get the same setup off the shelf in Canada for about $3,000. The only difference is the standard capacity magazines, but even that is not a big difference as PAL/RPAL holders can legally have semi-auto AR style rifles with a 14+1 capacity.

    As for taking them home, it would be internal policy. I know the RCMP is permitted to retain issued duty firearms at their place of residence. So long as they are stored in a responsible manner that takes the safety of others into account, I have no issue with members being allowed to retain custody of their firearms at their homes.

    Originally posted by 01RedDX
    So is he also exempt from the law requiring that ammo be stored separately?

    TBH I am more comfortable with the idea of it being staged and the dumbass losing his job, than with it falling into criminal hands.
    You can legally store and transport loaded magazines in the same case as a firearm.
    Last edited by FraserB; 04-05-2015 at 09:49 PM.
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    Originally posted by killramos


    None of that info is part of the original Post and story which I was referring to. My guess thaT he had permission was wrong I guess

    Officer is not subject to the same transport regulations you are as I stated earlier because the carbine is police issued and not subject to the firearms act.

    As Fraser said. Departmental policy infraction. Not a crime.
    In the press statement the chief stated, off duty officers are subject to the same transport and storage laws civilians are subject to. So your statement is invalid. Depending on the out come off asirt's investigation he could be charged depending on their findings.

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    Wonder if they gave him a breathalizer.

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    ...
    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-13-2019 at 01:03 AM.

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    I really hope he get charged like any other civilian.

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    Originally posted by redblack
    I really hope he get charged like any other civilian.
    What should he be charged with?
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    Last edited by Rat Fink; 12-04-2020 at 10:16 PM.
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    Originally posted by redblack
    I really hope he get charged like any other civilian.
    Charged with what? If I get my rifle stolen from my car what would I get charged with?

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    ...
    Last edited by redblack; 04-06-2015 at 12:57 AM.

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    Originally posted by Sophal


    In the press statement the chief stated, off duty officers are subject to the same transport and storage laws civilians are subject to. So your statement is invalid. Depending on the out come off asirt's investigation he could be charged depending on their findings.
    To bad Rick Hanson doesn't get to make up laws.

    Here is but one example straight from the firearms act that states police weapons are exempt. My apologies for not going through the entire act and listing each and every time it is stated that police weapons are exempt from the act. I don't have time for that.

    Exempted firearms

    15. A registration certificate may not be issued for a firearm that is owned by Her Majesty in right of Canada or a province or by a police force.
    The only way police officers are subject to the same laws is with their PERSONAL firearms. Which this was not.
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    What does registration have to do with safe storage and transport laws?

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    It doesn't have a lot to do with storage laws, but there isn't much to show that the firearm wasn't being stored properly in this case. Simply having it stolen from your vehicle does not constitute unsafe storage.

    For transport, it is actually impossible for a police officer to transport an issued firearm in complete compliance with the Firearms Act. But in this case, if the rifle met the safe storage requirements, then the vast majority of the transport laws would have been met. The ones not being met would be impossible for the officer to meet and covered under their exemption.

    I've also seen nothing stating for a fact that police are prohibited by department policy from taking issued firearms home with them. If there isn't such a policy, there really is no charge that could be brought under the Firearms Act. If there is and he broke it, then there are many things he could be charged with, most notably, possession of a restricted/prohibited firearm while unauthorized, possession of ammunition while unauthorized and possession of a prohibited device and/or possession of a restricted/prohibited firearm knowing its possession is unauthorized.
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  18. #38
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    but it is an automatic rifle with full capacity magazines to be fair... A bit different than a civilian long gun.
    Not really. In terms of capability, the difference between a full auto capable carbine or rifle is really negligible from a semi auto variant, and this has been demonstrated on various ranges by various shooters in various scenarios over and over again.

    So far as the magazine capacity, gimme a break. Anyone with pinned 5 rnd or now 10 if it's an AR pistol mag, or even 15 if it's a Beowolf mag using 556 - I'm sure if they are bent on criminal actions they won't bother taking the 20 seconds required to pop out the pop rivet in their magazine, thus converting it back to full capacity. Yep, I'm sure they'll still comply with mag restrictions when breaking them is so simple.


    I for one don't think the officer did anything wrong, he stored the weapon by the book, a locked case, inside a locked vehicle, you can even legally store ammunition in such a case for transport if secured properly. It's not his fault his vehicle was targeted by thieves. Hell, you see cars with long guns mounted near the dash all the time, stealing them isn't rocket science, it's surprising it doesn't occur more often in fact.

    I do have a problem with a road block being set up to sweep civilian cars, likely long after the fact, to find it, if that is indeed what was done. An ass covering measure if ever there was one, although sometimes long shots can convert in these cases, but it isn't often.

    A CPS officer I used to shoot and compete with and I stopped by the Soldier Shop on 17th ave back in 2003 or so. I kid had just stolen an AR15 off the rack and run for it towards to nearby park. We happened to have a xpolice dog with us (his), and we off leash tracked the guy, and found he had discarded/hid the rifle in a bush. Recovered by fluke, but the odds of getting something like this back any way other than word of mouth is very, very rare. So again, searching civvy vehicles for it seems pretty ridiculous, and more likely to add fuel to the fire, if one was to start.

  19. #39
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    Originally posted by Gman.45
    I do have a problem with a road block being set up to sweep civilian cars, likely long after the fact, to find it, if that is indeed what was done. An ass covering measure if ever there was one, although sometimes long shots can convert in these cases, but it isn't often.
    Looks like the CPS has a problem with the searches too.

    From the Herald article:
    Stuart said he was also made aware of allegations on social media about police canvassing vehicles in the area in a bid to search for clues in the case, which could potentially spark a separate professional standards investigation.
    ---

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    Id be willing to bet the roadblocks were setup as "license or seatbelt checks" (legal) and then the drivers were asked if they could give permission to search their trunks (many criminals are too dumb to hide their stolen shit and leave it in plain sight. )

    The CPS and other forces in Canada are well within their rights to do this, but ***cannot DEMAND a search*** of the vehicle without probable cause.

    Containment/Roadblocks are also setup to catch people fleeing the scene of a crime (same thing), not sure why this got blown up so much UNLESS someones section 8 of the CRF was violated.


    Comment from Reddit user who went through a block:

    [–]HyperPyrexiaNorthwest Calgary 17 points 1 day ago

    As someone who went through this blockade, search, VIOLATION OF MERICA! I gotta say, at no time was the search "demanded" or forced.

    You know what the officer did say "We're checking trunks in this location, can I check yours?". It was a 20 second visual check, he didn't rip up my spare tire and I was gone to sleep off the evening shift. As someone who lives in the community, I think the police had a reasonable notion that WHATEVER they were looking for was likely still in the area, a full parking lot, half of the size of a football field.

    The way my girlfriend describe it is that the rolled up quickly and established the roadblocks, and then another cruiser went to Shanks. My girlfriend didn't see anyone arrested, ripped out of their vehicle, police planting cocaine, smashing tail lights, or anything else, as has been suggest as things that could happen.
    Last edited by revelations; 04-06-2015 at 12:50 PM.

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