Batman Vs. Superman Dawn Of Justice

[D'z Nutz]

[Xtrema]

TOMATOMETER is now at 29%, everyone saw it say it's meh or worse. Movie still made $170M. Marketing did their job I guess.

[AE92_TreunoSC]

Wish I saw deadpool or zootopia again

Pretty much the water incident had me give up on my little enjoyment of the movie.

I almost want them to try again with an indie crew and 3 million dollars.

[eglove]

Pretty meh... Too many storylines going on and the cuts to a new scene were terrible

[JordanLotoski]

I saw it last night..Terrible Movie

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Xtrema
TOMATOMETER is now at 29%, everyone saw it say it's meh or worse. Movie still made $170M. Marketing did their job I guess.

Yet audience score is 73%, Metacritic 7.4, IMDB 7.5

Rotten Tomatoes gave iron man 3 79% and that was the one super hero movie I turned off before it even ended I felt i was so abhorrent.

Problem is, Snyder is setting this movie to tie into like 6 movies that are following - where Marvel did the 6 movies BEFORE avengers.

I mean, everybody had a giant problem with the mass destruction in Man of Steel - that was until it was there as a plot device to lead to Batmans hatred of Superman.

There is a grand picture, but we're just seeing a portion of it now.

I'll openly admit, this is a back asswards way of doing this and I don't think it's the proper approach, but I imagine when all of the movies release in the coming 2-3 years , this movie will be seen a bit differently and will all make sense...

but still doesn't forgive Jesse fucking Eisenberg as Lex

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


Yet audience score is 73%, Metacritic 7.4, IMDB 7.5

Rotten Tomatoes gave iron man 3 79% and that was the one super hero movie I turned off before it even ended I felt i was so abhorrent.

Problem is, Snyder is setting this movie to tie into like 6 movies that are following - where Marvel did the 6 movies BEFORE avengers.

I mean, everybody had a giant problem with the mass destruction in Man of Steel - that was until it was there as a plot device to lead to Batmans hatred of Superman.

There is a grand picture, but we're just seeing a portion of it now.

I'll openly admit, this is a back asswards way of doing this and I don't think it's the proper approach, but I imagine when all of the movies release in the coming 2-3 years , this movie will be seen a bit differently and will all make sense...

but still doesn't forgive Jesse fucking Eisenberg as Lex

I agree, I mean in the grand scheme of things he did what he had to do to tie things in for a Justice League movie. However, Lex needs to be recast 100% lol. Ain't no excuse for that haha

[Lex350]

Saw this on the weekend with my son...what a waste of time. Horrible movie.

[anarchy]

Just saw this last night - I agree with the reviews here.

The plot was all over the place with random events happening without anything tying it all together. It was slow to get going and for a 2.5 hour movie, it's unacceptable that they couldn't tell a complete story.

Spoiler:

I knew going in that I was going to have a hard time believing how these two superheroes could hate each other, but I was open to seeing how they did it. They did not convince me in the slightest - oh some people died and Wayne's building was damaged because of a fight with a god damn alien, so that's going to make Batman hate Superman so much that he wants to kill him? Shouldn't Batman of all people understand how hard it is to save the world while trying to avoid collateral damage?

Okay, fine, he hates him, I'll buy into that. Wait, their mom's have the same name? Oh shit, you gotta be besties then. Clearly all that hatred can be taken away by simply saying....Martha. Give me a break.

Lastly, the fact that this movie is called Batman vs Superman is ridiculous. There was what, a 15 min fight scene between the two? The rest was all convoluted bs.

I don't buy the excuse for a second that this will be seen better in the long run once you get the big picture. It was a terrible movie and only DC apologists could convince themselves it'll get better one day.

[know1edge]

.

[403Gemini]

Answered as best as I can

Originally posted by know1edge
Not as bad as I thought it'd be. I thought Affleck was ok
I have serious questions though, maybe 403gemini can answer some of them

Spoiler:

Why is Lois Lane even in this movie? Why did she randomly decide to go to Batman vs Supes fight, and how did she know that they were talking about Martha?
-Fuck man this bothered me as well, also she was nowhere around when they were talking about the spear , so how would SHE know that it's the key to killing doomsday? I may have to watch it again, maybe she heard he was kryptonian? Zod? I dunno , I'll have to watch it again

How are they going to explain Clark Kent reviving?
-When he died in the 90's comics, he was actually just in a very deep coma, the suns energy eventually resurrected him, but it took A LONG time.

Why did Batman just leave a fucking krypton spear lying around? and does Lois Lane hate the environment?
-What made less sense to me, is the one weapon on the planet(that she knew about) that could kill the man she loves, she randomly discards into a water/pool in an abandoned building? Why wouldnt she hold onto it until superman could properly dispose of it?


Why was Batman branding people?
-They cover how the feeling of a God makes people feel inadequate - also Batman talks about "how far a promise went in Gotham city" and "just how many heroes are left?" This is a batman near retirement, he's clearly seen some shit - I think he's at the end of his rope , ergo why he's also killing people. This isn't new to the Batman story arch, but it is usually triggered by joker going on a mass killing spree that batman snaps, kills joker and decides that he can't do half measures anymore, and becomes more cruel. Reading the story line "Hush" Batman says;
"if clark wanted to, he could use his superspeed and squish me into the cement.
But I know how he thinks. even more than the Kryptonite, he's got one big weakness.
Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person... and deep down, I'm not."


So the flash can travel through dimensions, but why was he in Bruce's dream? and is he supposed to look like some homeless kid?
-Honestly, I think it wasn't REALLY a dream when Batman came out of it , but rather Bruce thinking he was hallucinating... but yeah him being all inception , dream of a dream was a bit weird - at this point I think it was too early to show off this aspect of the Flash's power , to standard audiences, people just know the Flash as the speedster, a guy who can just run really fast.
Also the Flash has had it's mantel taken up by 4 different people.
1- Jay Garrick (original)
2 - Barry Allen (most common, the one scene I believe on the TV show)
3 - Wally west
4 - Bart Allen

Bart Allen was Barry's son... so I'm not sure if he's supposed to be Wally or Bart... we'll see I guess (IMDB doesn't state who his secret identity is)

Why was Batman shooting people?
See batman branding question - also he prefers more martial arts tactics, he only REALLY shot people in his car/batwing.

Why was the wheelchair guy so angry at Bruce Wayne?
-I think he felt like he was Wayne's dirty little secret that he could hide away with cheques and didn't feel like he was doing enough. I think when Lex reached out, he felt like only Lex understood how/why he hated superman.

What the heck was Mark Zuckerberg doing in this movie? and what made him so mad at Superman?
and this is the million dollar question.

Truly, Lex hates Superman because it's an inferiority complex. Lex is arguably the smartest person in the DC universe (Human wise) , even contesting batman - unforutnately Jesse fucking Eisenberg made him look like a fucking joke.

Lex is realistically a very smart, confident, ego maniac that works on perfection both body & mind. He's supposed to be extremely fit, extremely smart, and even knowing how hard he trains, he will never meet superman status as far as speed & strength goes , so that's why he uses his wit to out think superman.

Lex already views most humans as "lesser" than him, so when a person like Superman shows up, he feels a need to beat him / destroy him.

I won't defend the plot holes, like I said, it's pretty confusing, and I imagine when we get a bunch of the other movies A LOT will be tied in - I mean we will likely get a stand alone flick which will show why he's so jaded , and I suspect is we'll see what happened to joker

A HUGE fan theory is Joker in Suicide Squad was acutally the Jason Todd Robin that got "killed"

If you look at Jared Leto's scars in his promo pic & then Robin's suit, you see two puncture holes on both of them in the EXACT same spot

http://s3.amazonaws.com/images.hitfi...joker_--_.jpeg

This would be a reason enough to drive Batman crazy... the kid you were training, gets "Killed" , only to return to be your worst enemy. I suspect we may see the real joker be played by somebody else, "Kill" Robin, Batman then kills the real Joker thinking he needs to stop before everybody Batman cares about dies - only to have this new version of the Joker arrive and it turns out to be Jason Todd.

[beecue]

I thought it was decent. At least a 7 or 8 out of 10. Batfleck was pretty good too imo.

[know1edge]

.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by know1edge

this one though, I meant, how will Clark explain to his Daily Planet coworkers etc?
Spoiler:

How are they going to explain Clark Kent reviving?
-When he died in the 90's comics, he was actually just in a very deep coma, the suns energy eventually resurrected him, but it took A LONG time.

I think...

Spoiler:

**I think the only real way to make it plausible is to say Clark tried to cover the Doomsday footage and was the only casualty.

It's like Dark Knight Returns, Batman "dies" and Bruce Wayne goes missing? convenient

[anarchy]

But...


Spoiler:

Your answer to the branding still doesn't explain why he does it. Sure he's more jaded now and maybe that explains why he's okay with killing now...but what does branding have to do with being jaded? It's just being a jerk.

And IF it's true that he's so jaded with killing, I assume it also means he understands why sometimes things will go further than you want it to. The whole basis of Batman hating Superman (at least in this movie and to my understanding) is because he destroyed Metropolis (indirectly) and there was collateral damage including deaths. So to my point in my earlier post, how can he hate on Superman when he understands the reasoning for these potential outcomes the best?

And since we're at it:
If Zuckerberg was going to bring Doomsday to life to kill Superman, what need was there to manipulate Batman and Superman into hating each other and fighting? Couldn't he have just gone straight to Doomsday?

And if he did indeed succeed in killing both of them with Doomsday, what was his plan then? It's not like he had any control over Doomsday.

Why was Wonderwoman showing up at these parties and gaining intel, when she presumably has been in hiding for the past 100 years? I mean, she doesn't seem to be doing much with it, basically just getting on a flight before realizing damn, I better jump in. And she had the same info Batfleck had, so she should have seen the files on herself on Justice League members too, no?


But I agree with both your comments. The whole Lois Lane thing and all the questions around the Kryptonite....just some of many questions I had throughout the movie.

Not sure how there could be so many questions and plotholes and how it can still be seen as an okay or good movie.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by anarchy
But...


Spoiler:

Your answer to the branding still doesn't explain why he does it. Sure he's more jaded now and maybe that explains why he's okay with killing now...but what does branding have to do with being jaded? It's just being a jerk.
- yeah, pretty much. I think he knew that the people who got branded would get it worse in jail (think they talked about somebody who was branded getting their ass kicked in jail , so in Batmans eyes "I'm not the one doing it..." , but yeah - still a dick move). I'm fine with it, there's so much more to this Batman that we haven't seen yet, and suspect there will be a prequel that will show how he went astray.

And IF it's true that he's so jaded with killing, I assume it also means he understands why sometimes things will go further than you want it to. The whole basis of Batman hating Superman (at least in this movie and to my understanding) is because he destroyed Metropolis (indirectly) and there was collateral damage including deaths. So to my point in my earlier post, how can he hate on Superman when he understands the reasoning for these potential outcomes the best?
-I think he took it personally because it was people he knew, and he saw the orphaned girl in the rubble. In Batmans eyes, he is a deterrent, he stops criminals before it escalates.
He sees Superman more of a reaction to a situation. Fire starts? Superman swoops in saves the people the building. Flood happens? Superman comes in and saves people. I mean yeah Superman can't STOP everything, but he also didn't stop Zod in the beginning. Zod took time to adapt to Earths atmosphere (that's why he was running/jumping at the beginning of their fight in Man of Steel, it wasn't until about 1/2 way through where Zod got used to it), so Superman could have ended the Zod fight MUCH sooner, with thousands of lives spared. And of course there is the argument of "even if there is a 1% chance, we must take it as a certainty he will destroy the planet" - I feel like Batman more wanted to prove that Superman COULD be beat... and IMO would have made more sense than actually wanting to kill him. I think pummeling him into the ground and holding the spear to his chest and saying "Remember how this could have went, but didn't" would have been more impactful.




And since we're at it:
If Zuckerberg was going to bring Doomsday to life to kill Superman, what need was there to manipulate Batman and Superman into hating each other and fighting? Couldn't he have just gone straight to Doomsday?
-In fairness, Zuckerberg had his plan of Batman v Superman in the works before he even had Zod's body. Doomsday was more of icing on the cake of his plan to kill Superman.



And if he did indeed succeed in killing both of them with Doomsday, what was his plan then? It's not like he had any control over Doomsday.
-So, Doomsday isn't actually Zod in the comics - Doomsday IS a kryptonian who basically was tortured by a scientist alien , where of course he would be killed, resurrected, killed again, etc and mixing genetics to create Doomsday. Zod's body in the comics has a few iterations, 1 being an army of super soldiers, another being Bizarro Superman... but Bizarro really has no place in this "universe" if you will. (Basically a fucking retarded superman, so you can't really be PC with a dumb ass superman running around ) , and Bizarro is inspired by Mary Shelly's Frankenstein - so I feel the inspiration for this was Lex THOUGHT he would create Doomsday and hoped Doomsday would see Lex as his creator... this is rather cliche , because how many times do we see a creator killed by his own creation? 9 times out of 10 , but Lex constantly does things like this - making deals with Darkseid, Braniac, etc - sometimes it turns out, sometimes it doesn't.


Why was Wonderwoman showing up at these parties and gaining intel, when she presumably has been in hiding for the past 100 years? I mean, she doesn't seem to be doing much with it, basically just getting on a flight before realizing damn, I better jump in. And she had the same info Batfleck had, so she should have seen the files on herself on Justice League members too, no?
-Wonder Woman wasn't gaining intel, I think she was trying to scrub her past. She knew Lex had intel on her (no idea how she knew...) , and that's why she stole Batmans hard drive. I don't think she was able to crack the encryption on it, that's why she gave it back to Batman (I don't imagine she has the same technology Bruce wayne does).


But I agree with both your comments. The whole Lois Lane thing and all the questions around the Kryptonite....just some of many questions I had throughout the movie.
-Lois was written as a stupid as fuck, do nothing bitch in this movie. Was pretty disappointed how she was portrayed


Not sure how there could be so many questions and plotholes and how it can still be seen as an okay or good movie.
-It really is a giant mess, and like I said - unless you're a die hard fan of the series, it absolutely is an abhorrent mess, for now. They are absolutely doing this series incorrectly - even if it took them another 2 years to get to "this" point, that's fine.

I feel like this movie should have been entirely Batman v Superman - no Lex, no Doomsday. Have batman angry at superman for Metropolis & and Batman beat Superman just to prove to the world, Superman can be beat. This would have been an excellent way to introduce Lex in the next movie , seeing the achilles heel of superman exposed if you will and then he forms weapons to kill Superman.

They could have the background story of "organized crime importing alien tech"(turn out to be Lex's lackeys, this way Batman has criminals to fight throughout the movie). Also emphasize more on the "What do we do in a world with a being like Superman?" This theme was way to shallow in this movie and should have been more of a focal point.

But hey, I don't write movies, what do I know

[anarchy]

Haha thanks for taking the time to respond. It actually helped a lot and makes a lot more sense now - but as a casual moviegoer who knows more about Marvel than DC I wish they gave us some of this background in the movie.

I feel like Marvel built up each individual character and explained the history and context before bringing them all together for Avengers while DC is taking the opposite approach and going Justice League first. But totally agree with your points and love your thoughts on what this movie could have been. I definitely would have been more invested.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by anarchy
Haha thanks for taking the time to respond. It actually helped a lot and makes a lot more sense now - but as a casual moviegoer who knows more about Marvel than DC I wish they gave us some of this background in the movie.

I feel like Marvel built up each individual character and explained the history and context before bringing them all together for Avengers while DC is taking the opposite approach and going Justice League first. But totally agree with your points and love your thoughts on what this movie could have been. I definitely would have been more invested.

Dude, totally.

I can take a step back from the fan-boyism and look at the movie / product as an average movie go-er, and I can see how this movie fails.

You are 100% correct, Marvel did a WAAAAAAAAAY better job marketing comics to mass audiences - it's why geek culture is so big right now (I remember going to comic con a year ago and it being 10% of what it is today... I actually avoid it now, too many people) .

What I appreciate a lot about the DC movies is the tone.

When I compare Dark Knight or Man of Steel to Avengers - I love all 3 movies equally. The thing is, I can watch Avengers like once a month, or have it on in the background, and still enjoy it. With DC movies, I love how dark and "raw" they feel compared to Marvel. Marvel I never feel like anything is ever at any real risk, with the exception of Captain America 2, Winter Soldier. But with DC movies, since I get more engaged/involved with the movie mentally, I find I can only watch these movies maybe once a year. That's not a bad thing, it's just "different"

As a comic book adaptation , this movie was actually one of the more accurate ones... but it's like you're reading a 12 comic book series and only buying issues 1, 2, 4, 7, 10, 11, 12. Key pieces are missing right now, which will likely be answered later...but it's still a bad idea to do it this way (hence the 27% on RT lol).

The only other comic adaptation I felt was almost 100% to the comic was The Watchmen which is a piece of art imo and Snyder did a marvelous job with it (and the "change" at the ending was very well received by fans).

edit: Also , I'm just answering based on MY interpretation with the source material I know... who fucking knows, maybe Snyder is driving this IP into the ground and I'm over analyzing it

[know1edge]

.

[ArjayAquino]

Originally posted by know1edge


nononono, what I mean is,
when Superman does get revived, how does Clark Kent explain why Clark isn't dead anymore? Does that happen in the comics?
He dies, and then just shows up to work, "Hey I wasn't actually dead, and I got that football scoop"

(I think expecting this thread to be spoiler free at this point is crazy)

Spoiler:

I was thinking about this too, I wonder if they will just keep Clark Kent "dead" and it'll just be Superman all the time now.

Did anyone else wonder who the hell the guy that was warning bruce wayne in his "dream"? This happened when he was waiting for the harddrive to decrypt. According to reddit, it's Flash travelling from the future which is pretty cool but I had no idea while watching the movie.

Also, I enjoyed the movie for the most part.