Tesla Megathread (was Just lost $40k USD on Tesla options)

[Xtrema]

We are working toward solar panel + power bank + EV.

It will take 6000 steps and Model S is only step 2.

We have to yet to put a dent into power generation side of the issue.
We have to yet to put a dent into power storage side of the issue.
We have EVs and even some affordable but compromised EVs but nowhere near as flexible as fuel.

Many manufacturers are still betting on Hydrogen.

I think Tesla got us moving toward a more sustainable future. They may not be around when we reached it (Think Xerox/Palm) but it will be the one who pushed us forward.

Really, this has been rehashed so many time now and I think everyone just love to get a rise out of Supe.

[rage2]

Originally posted by killramos
And there begs the question of since when is a 35 thousand dollar car affordable for the masses?

Lets look at the top 10 non pickup truck cars sold in the US and their prices.

Toyota Corolla : $16,950
Toyota Camry : $22,970
Nissan Altima : $22,300
Honda CR-V : $23,445
Honda Accord : $22,105
Ford Escape : $22,960
Toyota RAV4 : $23,680
Ford Fusion : $22,110
Chevrolet Equinox : $22,120
Honda Civic : $18,490

Those top ten cars make up 24% of the US Passenger Cars, Crossovers, SUV's market. Teslas target market. That's an average selling price of $19,706. We can call it $20,000 for simplicity sake. Teslas target basement price is 75% higher than that.

What's funny is that the Tesla plant was originally the NUMMI plant that produced these cheap cars for the masses.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2

What's funny is that the Tesla plant was originally the NUMMI plant that produced these cheap cars for the masses.

Buying a plant designed to make 8,000 cars a week to make 385.

Sounds like typical Tesla Logic

[supe]

@killramos, read this article on how a model s comes out cheaper than a minvan half its price:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...dyssey-minivan

But even if you don't read it, the final paragraph summarizes as follows:
“But you save $20-25K on gas and $5-10K on maintenance. In today’s dollars, the Model S is less expensive than nearly any other luxury car, and more affordable than even the Ody.”

Translate that comparison from a model S to a model 3 and you can quickly add up how the model 3 will compete nicely with your Honda Accords and the like.

Its tough comparing EV's to ICE's but EV's are showing lots of benefits, including price point.

[supe]

Originally posted by rage2

What's funny is that the Tesla plant was originally the NUMMI plant that produced these cheap cars for the masses.

If you care, watch this, and see if you still use the word "cheap" to describe it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvh_brqMJgU

[rage2]

I'm describing the cars that were made there, not the plant. I wouldn't describe any modern automotive production plant cheap.

[killramos]

Originally posted by supe
@killramos, read this article on how a model s comes out cheaper than a minvan half its price:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...dyssey-minivan

But even if you don't read it, the final paragraph summarizes as follows:
“But you save $20-25K on gas and $5-10K on maintenance. In today’s dollars, the Model S is less expensive than nearly any other luxury car, and more affordable than even the Ody.”

Translate that comparison from a model S to a model 3 and you can quickly add up how the model 3 will compete nicely with your Honda Accords and the like.

Its tough comparing EV's to ICE's but EV's are showing lots of benefits, including price point.

You should look up your own sources, the author of that analysis later retracted his statement as his calculations were full of Marth and the Odyssey was 5 grand cheaper than the Tesla even with his excessive stacking the books ( like using numbers from California ) lol.

http://www.teslacost.com/

I created this website two days ago, and during that time, have witnessed 100s of comments on Hacker News, TMC, Twitter, and more. In the middle of all that, electriclove on Hacker News found an important bug in the model: The Ody PV line was adding in fuel costs from another car. (This, IMHO, highlights how valuable the Internet is for discourse and fact checking.) I also added in an extra $1200 every 3rd year to the Tesla for tires. I updated the model and the result is as follows:
Tesla Model S: $42,083
Honda Odyssey: $37,235
The end result is greater parity between the depreciation and cash flow models; and the edge goes to the Honda Odyssey by $5K, or about $600/yr over eight years.

And the Honda is still a much nicer vehicle to be in.

Comparing cost of ownership of a Van with a huge engine on a truck frame seating 8 people comfortably with a cheap interior'd sedan

[supe]

Originally posted by killramos


You should look up your own sources, the author of that analysis later retracted his statement as his calculations were full of Marth and the Odyssey was 5 grand cheaper than the Tesla even with his excessive stacking the books ( like using numbers from California ) lol.

http://www.teslacost.com/



And the Honda is still a much nicer vehicle to be in.

Comparing cost of ownership of a Van with a huge engine on a truck frame seating 8 people comfortably with a cheap interior'd sedan

The funny thing is you're actually validating my statement because of the initial costs of the cars 92k vs 42k

Thanks for the leg work sherlock.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Old Sugernspice had a point, it's like debating with Amway.....

I still don't know how many times hyped up stocks with no revenue (let alone any foreseeable future profits) have paid out in the long term? Regardless, if you come up on the right side of the gamble when you're playing it then nice work.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


No allowance for a battery either, which is going to be an issue if you are hanging onto it for 10 years

I think you want to own a 10yr old Model S as much as you want to own a 10 year old Merc S65.

Battery endurance is more of a problem for a cheap car but not as much on expensive.

We all know and seen NiMh battery that gives out on Prius after 7-8 years. We just don't know about Li-Ion yet. Even if they do fail, they can be recycled as home battery banks where such large capacity isn't as critical.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

Originally posted by supe


The funny thing is you're actually validating my statement because of the initial costs of the cars 92k vs 42k

Thanks for the leg work sherlock.

» Click image for larger version

[supe]

Just for fun, this is the latest and greatest from BMW, price tag starts at 150k.

[ercchry]

whats with all this battery talk? i thought the game plan was to have battery swap stations instead of charge stations... you'd get a new battery often, and tesla would worry about the life of the ones they take in and out of circulation?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

...and yet a 2013 with 10K miles on it only goes for 44K?

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/de...4228/overview/

The lowest price used 2013 Models S on Autotrader is $57K in Cali.

Not sure why this dude is selling his for $44K.

Originally posted by ercchry
whats with all this battery talk? i thought the game plan was to have battery swap stations instead of charge stations... you'd get a new battery often, and tesla would worry about the life of the ones they take in and out of circulation?

Musk already say that most likely won't happen going forward. The minute you start swapping out battery, you now own the liability of the state of that battery.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/10/e...battery-swaps/

[B18C]

The Next Billion Tour

You should all go test drive one yourself.

All environmental, tree hugging talk aside, it's a fantastic car. 0-60 in 3.1 seconds (soon to be 2.8 seconds), seats 7 (5+2), and great handling. It's the ultimate super sedan.

Not to mention the convenience of waking up every morning with a full tank of "gas" and never having to go to a gas station again. There is simply NOTHING like it at any price range.

[killramos]

Is it really nessecary to repeat 3 pages of forum posts every time we have some new idealistic tesla fanboy come in here?

Tl:dr

It's not as great a driving car as people like to think.

It is not representative of the car of the future.

There is more to being a good sports car than having a low 0-60.

The car is nowhere near as "convenient" as people like to think.

The car costs you way more than you would like to think.

Elon Musk is not a messiah.

Oh yea and the company is destined for bankruptcy, and all of its shareholders are going to lose their shirts.

/thread

[B18C]

I wish it wasn't necessary but there are so many misconceptions about the Tesla, hat it's hard to ignore.

It may not be the car of the future but it sure feels like it. It's a compelling car on so many levels. Many of my friends that are not what I call "car guys" simply LOVE the Model S. It's often a major talking point when we get together which simply isn't the case with any other car. If nothing else, it's gotten people excited and talking about EV's in a positive manner.

I find the P85D a fantastic driving car. It's a big car but it doesn't feel like it behind the wheel.

It not only has an extremely impressive 0-60 time it is also very well mannered and fun to throw around corners thanks to it's very low center of gravity and dual motor setup.

One thing that is overlooked is how easy it is to drive. Anyone can get into it and mash the accelerator and get to 60mph in 3.1 seconds. It does so with no drama whatsoever. No spinning tires, slipping or sliding. It's not a performance number that is only attainable by professional drivers.

I would argue that it is even more convenient as people think. No more gas stations is a big one. The mobile app is excellent. Lets you check on your car from anywhere. Pre-heat/pre-cool your car from anywhere, lock/unlock, etc.

This is something that I'm guessing other manufacturers will start doing soon. I think Mercedes has already demonstrated an app for their upcoming E-class which has some pretty amazing features too, btw.

Is it less convenient for long distance trips? Sure. If that is a deal breaker for you then this car obviously isn't for you. For most people, going to a gas station is a weekly occurrence. A long road trip?...Maybe once a year? I think an every day convenience trumps a rare road trip for most people. Also keep in mind that with the Canmore supercharger you can go to the mountains with ease too. And they are always expanding their Supercharger network.

It is an expensive car. $150k for a P85D is nothing to sneeze at. I think it is the correct business model though. Build a car that people actually want. Something that shows the advantages of electric. Something to prove the technology and lets you build out the necessary infrastructure. Now when you go the the next stage and make a car that is meant more for the mass market, it will have everything in place and have a much better chance to be successful.

Elon is a messiah! He is either Tony Stark or an evil Bond villain. Either way he's a pretty interesting person.

Tesla may go bankrupt. They are definitely aggressive so crash and burn is definitely possible. All I know is that they make a pretty awesome car right now. The fact that the Model S outsells everything in it's class is proof of that enough.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by B18C


I would argue that it is even more convenient as people think. No more gas stations is a big one. The mobile app is excellent. Lets you check on your car from anywhere. Pre-heat/pre-cool your car from anywhere, lock/unlock, etc.

This is something that I'm guessing other manufacturers will start doing soon. I think Mercedes has already demonstrated an app for their upcoming E-class which has some pretty amazing features too, btw.

FWIW, GM has had an interface app that gives car info, allows remote start/heat/cool, etc since 2010 - long before the Model S even entered production.