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    Default Google 'should be allowed in examinations'

    Google 'should be allowed in examinations' - interesting idea and worthy of discussion.

    Myself, being a guy that went to grade school in the late 60's-early 70's and SAIT 79-81, I've witnessed tremendous technological change - hell, I actually used honest to goodness slide rules before calculators were a thing.

    But as technology moves on and information becomes so readily available, do we, as the human race, have to start looking at things differently when it comes to schooling/learning/testing?

    This Mark Dawe guy - he's the Chief Executive at Oxford Cambridge and RSA (link) and as such, his views probably carry some merit...


    Google 'should be allowed in examinations'

    It is inevitable search engines such as Google will be allowed in public examinations, including GCSEs and A-Levels, the head of an exam board says.

    OCR chief Mark Dawe told the Today programme allowing internet use in exam rooms reflected the way pupils learned and how they would work in future.

    He said students would still need a basis of knowledge and would have limited time to conduct searches.

    The Campaign for Real Education condemned the idea as "dumbing down".

    Mr Dawe said: "Surely when they learn in the classroom, everyone uses Google if there is a question.

    "It is more about understanding what results you're seeing rather than keeping all of that knowledge in your head, because that's not how the modern world works."

    He compared the idea to the debate about whether to have books available during a test, saying: "In reality you didn't have too much time [to consult the book] and you had to learn it anyway."

    Mr Dawe suggested some exams may allow internet access and others may not.

    He told the Today programme: "It's about understanding the tools they have got available and how to utilise them.

    "When we are asking a question where we know there's access to the internet, we could ask a different question - it's about the interpretation, the discussion."

    On the issue of when internet use might be allowed in exams, Mr Dawe said: "It's very unlikely to happen in the next few weeks or next few months, but it's certainly inevitable, I would suggest."

    Chris McGovern, of the Campaign for Real Education, said: "We have a crisis in standards in this country.

    "We are three years behind the Chinese, at the age of 15.

    "We have got universities running remedial courses.

    "We have got employers saying too many youngsters are unemployable."

    He added: "You can have an exam in how to use Google - that's not the same thing as having a history exam or a geography exam.

    "We do have to test what children are carrying in their heads".
    Quoted from this BBC News article.

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    Last edited by Cos; 12-28-2016 at 03:37 PM.
    Originally posted by adam c

    Line goes up, line goes down, line does squiggly things and fucks Alberta
    "The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones"

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    We value candidates that use Google to help solve problems during technical interviews/tests. Why waste time reinventing the wheel? Makes no sense. What's interesting is how many people are absolutely terrible at google skills and can't find what they need to solve a problem.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Why would you want Google to be allowed in tests? Imagine how difficult the questions are going to be, and even then, someone who doesn't know anything about the concept being taught will figure out a way around the system. It's too tempting not to.

    It's not hard to get answers when you're in school. The whole idea is understanding what you've learned, and allowing this will just make kids dumber IMO. A lot of kids will just try to figure out the answer without putting in the effort of understanding it. That's what I did when I was in a rush.

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    Originally posted by Disoblige
    It's not hard to get answers when you're in school
    I can't even count the number of times I've googled a question in quotes and got a full on step-by-step solution.

    How I feel about this:
    On homework, who cares, because I end up getting hit on the exam when I never really understood where the answer came from because it's copied word for word.
    On an exam, if they get to blindly copy the solution, that doesn't prove anything. This is why I'm all for open textbook/notes exams. i.e. Does anyone actually need to know how to triple differentiate an equation? What's important is being able to find a solution, understand how to translate that solution to your current problem, and know when your answer is out of whack.

    On rage2's comment: precisely what I'm thinking on people who don't know how to google. It's like all the people who google "What to do when I have a cough" and then self diagnose that they have SARS
    Last edited by jwslam; 04-30-2015 at 11:05 AM.

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    Guess it would depend on the exam, are you just regurgitating materials? Or are you actually solving a problem/critically thinking? I never did understand testing how well you can remember shit... if you cant critically think... then again i've straight up lost half the marks on questions at sait cause i solved them my own way vs the process we were told, still had the right answers, still showed my work... and it wasn't just one instructor either, happened in math and strength of materials

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    Mark Dawe states "It is more about understanding what results you're seeing rather than keeping all of that knowledge in your head, because that's not how the modern world works."

    This is BS - one can only understand results if you have some working knowledge or experience of the sought out process/issue in the first place.

    I can certainly Google the shit out how to rebuild an engine and could probably write up (plagarize?) a paper on such a process, but by no means does that mean I could actually go do such.

    Here's a great analogy - Google Maps will always give me what it thinks is the best route home for my afternoon commute and often it is the best and most efficient route and I can easily understand the results it presents to me including alternatives. But when things get bogged down then Google Maps' offered alternatives are not the best and most efficient route to take - only real world knowledge and experience will find one the faster ways and it is often no where close to what Google Maps says I should be doing.

    I realize that time is becoming a more precious commodity as every year passes and technology evolves but time and time again, real world experience and knowledge will often prove to be the real saviours when people find themselves in a bind.
    Will fuck off, again.

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    Originally posted by ercchry
    Guess it would depend on the exam, are you just regurgitating materials? Or are you actually solving a problem/critically thinking? I never did understand testing how well you can remember shit... if you cant critically think... then again i've straight up lost half the marks on questions at sait cause i solved them my own way vs the process we were told, still had the right answers, still showed my work... and it wasn't just one instructor either, happened in math and strength of materials
    Ran into exactly this with my daughter in her grade 11 math this year - she was having difficulty solving a problem and I provided a solution that easily worked. The only problem is that the process I used was by no means anywhere close to what she was required to put down on paper as the process she used to get to the required answer - seemed so ridiculous to me that alternative solutions couldn't be accepted.

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    Smart people will use whatever available to get the job done quicker and better. Stupid people will drop the hammer on their toes and push the nails in with their thumbs.

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    ^
    Haha, agreed!

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    Originally posted by speedog
    Here's a great analogy - Google Maps will always give me what it thinks is the best route home for my afternoon commute and often it is the best and most efficient route and I can easily understand the results it presents to me including alternatives. But when things get bogged down then Google Maps' offered alternatives are not the best and most efficient route to take - only real world knowledge and experience will find one the faster ways and it is often no where close to what Google Maps says I should be doing.
    Not everything in the world is about "faster". I'd rather have someone who knows how to get there in one piece, than some guy who knows that no cops are ever at this playground zone so he can go 70 there to get home faster.

    The point is that if I provide you with the proper resource (map), you have to know how to utilize it to produce the desired result (arriving at home safely). Whereas I feel tests now are "you're downtown. this is the address you need to get to. you've studied calgary because you've lived here for the past 8 years. now go"
    Last edited by jwslam; 04-30-2015 at 03:36 PM.

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    Students still need to learn all the fundamentals the old fashioned way especially younger kids. At the university level this will likely help exams EVOLVE into problems which involve critical thinking and problem solving. I found open book exams to be a gimmick - if you're looking up every formula, definition, etc DURING the exam you probably don't understand the topic enough to give a decent answer or finish on time.

    There's value in deep understanding of a subject without pulling your phone out.

    EDIT: Be careful what you wish for - if google is allowed on exams it'll probably be a lot tougher. Instead of get from point A to B it might be go from point A to B while achieving C, D, and avoiding E.
    Last edited by Manhattan; 04-30-2015 at 03:55 PM.

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    Last edited by Cos; 12-28-2016 at 03:37 PM.
    Originally posted by adam c

    Line goes up, line goes down, line does squiggly things and fucks Alberta
    "The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones"

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    Originally posted by Disoblige
    Why would you want Google to be allowed in tests? Imagine how difficult the questions are going to be, and even then, someone who doesn't know anything about the concept being taught will figure out a way around the system. It's too tempting not to.
    So?

    Why does an employer care how/where/why/what/anything about your skills as long as it makes them money?

    For instance, say I have no idea how to do the brakes on my car, but I am a mechanically inclined individual and I find somebody doing brakes on the exact same car on a video on youtube; am I then "qualified" to do the work?

    I say yes. An engineer gets paid more than me (for instance) doing code because he is faster at it. Not better (necessarily), just faster. Hence, he is worth more per hour. Nobody cares HOW he gets it done, just that he does and it is correct.

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    How did I know clicking into this thread again that HiTempguy1 was going to mention engineering.. Haha

    Originally posted by HiTempguy1

    For instance, say I have no idea how to do the brakes on my car, but I am a mechanically inclined individual and I find somebody doing brakes on the exact same car on a video on youtube; am I then "qualified" to do the work?
    If it was your job? No. I know what you're trying to get at, but this was a pretty bad example. If you have no idea how to do brakes, and watched a video on how to do them, no you are not classified as "qualified".

    And your coding example, what exactly do you mean? Are you saying that you would be able to do the job as well, just slower? Slower because you're spending all your time Googling this shit?


    Originally posted by Manhattan
    Students still need to learn all the fundamentals the old fashioned way especially younger kids. At the university level this will likely help exams EVOLVE into problems which involve critical thinking and problem solving. I found open book exams to be a gimmick - if you're looking up every formula, definition, etc DURING the exam you probably don't understand the topic enough to give a decent answer or finish on time.

    There's value in deep understanding of a subject without pulling your phone out.

    EDIT: Be careful what you wish for - if google is allowed on exams it'll probably be a lot tougher. Instead of get from point A to B it might be go from point A to B while achieving C, D, and avoiding E.
    Quoting this because I agree with it.

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    I have no problems with this. At the end of the day, a problem solved is a problem solved. Given how easy it is to reference material, I'd argue that it's more valuable for someone to be able to problem solve and use the materials available vs. memorize formulas/etc.

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    Manhattan nailed it with his post.

    Using Google doesn't replace a fundamental understanding of an issue; it basically makes you Arash.

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    I don't think they are talking about elementary level tests and examinations. Obviously a test for spelling or pure knowledge will not work when google is allowed. I remember in university a lot of the tests were opened book in later years. As long as the school or whoever in authority doesn't get lazy and recycle questions from past tests which you can google for answers, I don't see it being a big deal.

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    Originally posted by rage2
    We value candidates that use Google to help solve problems during technical interviews/tests. Why waste time reinventing the wheel? Makes no sense. What's interesting is how many people are absolutely terrible at google skills and can't find what they need to solve a problem.
    Agreed.

    Noting infuriates me more than a colleague who refuses to Google an error message from a log file and instead randomly clicks or modifies configuration files hoping to fix something.

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    In my opinion, the way we gather information has changed drastically in the last 10 years or so, since i was high school at least, they should be adjusting school to teach people how to be a good person, how to deal with life, and how to adjust to situations that are going to be hard, not memorizing dates and formulas. School testing based on memory needs to be changed, just because somebody can remember something easier that does not make them smarter, it makes their memory better.
    Being able to search and get answers for anything in the world from your phone should be enough to change the way we are taught.

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