Who did you actually vote for?

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I don't think I will have to worry about that after the NDP burn this place to the ground

Raising corporate tax rate from 10% to 12% over 4 years isn't going to drive all the investment out of the province. It sure won't cause companies to uproot, move to BC and build all new buildings to occupy.

Royalty rates do need to be looked at, but won't be implemented when prices are low.

[Feruk]

With Prentice resigning, I guess that riding is going back to the polls for a 3rd time in under a year.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Cos]

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[BigMass]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


NDP stated pretty clearly that an immediate royalty review will take place

Also as I mentioned, the only way they are getting an extra 500 million in corporate revenue is if:
a) They increase it to 20%
b) Oil suddenly explodes to 150$ per barrel
c) unicorn sales go through the roof

or you can read my reply to see how over time things don't remain stagnant so projections for 2020 don't assume the world stands still.

[Sugarphreak]

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[FraserB]

Originally posted by BigMass
Nouveau riche in Calgary have been going along for the ride and don't seem appreciative of the fact. Yes the rich should pay more and thank god we might finally get a progressive tax system in this province. Eliminate deduction loopholes for corporations, increase corporate taxes and tax dividends and capital gains as income.

The society of the not so distant future is no longer going to be able to function off economic ideas centuries old based on production and the exploitation of human and non human resources. Automation and technological advancement guarantees that we need to look at a new structure that can accommodate human survival beyond what we think works today. We can already start seeing cracks in the system with good jobs disappearing and being replaced with minimum wage part time service sector jobs. A call for an increase to minimum wage, guaranteed income. An increase in public unrest. These are signs our current system is coming undone and needs something new.

So we're going to punish people who work hard and sacrifice to get ahead, all while telling people it's fine to have no ambition or drive to better yourself since someone with those attributes will subsidize you.

People used to think that if they wanted more than they currently had, they found a way to make it work. Now, people just want more, but expect it to be either given to them or those who do have more to be punished for doing well.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Aleks


It was implemented decades ago in some places.

Most people have a one track mind about government. Like the only thing the government can do is take away or give them money. Government is part of an overall societal structure, and while I'm sure the economic O&G situation will suck no matter who you vote for, in tough economic times I'd rather live with left leaning social policies. Good riddance to the PCs and Wild Rose.

On another point, I've noticed in this thread a lot of fear mongering by relatively rich individuals and a weak understanding of the concept of wealth transfer. What people fail to realize is that over the past 5000 years, humans have been living under a system of wealth transfer. From the poor masses to the elite and rich few. Funny how the second we talk about transferring some of that wealth back to the hands of the masses we start throwing around Stalin, Lenin and Communism. Every single policy central banks and governments have made in recent history have been directly benefiting the rich and helping to make the poor poorer. The reason your stocks are up, the reason your real estate is up, the reason your bank accounts are fat, the reason Apple, Exxon and Google run the planet, is because money and power has been sucked from the average person and handed over to the parasitic elite. Nouveau riche in Calgary have been going along for the ride and don't seem appreciative of the fact. Yes the rich should pay more and thank god we might finally get a progressive tax system in this province. Eliminate deduction loopholes for corporations, increase corporate taxes and tax dividends and capital gains as income.

The society of the not so distant future is no longer going to be able to function off economic ideas centuries old based on production and the exploitation of human and non human resources. Automation and technological advancement guarantees that we need to look at a new structure that can accommodate human survival beyond what we think works today. We can already start seeing cracks in the system with good jobs disappearing and being replaced with minimum wage part time service sector jobs. A call for an increase to minimum wage, guaranteed income. An increase in public unrest. These are signs our current system is coming undone and needs something new.

So wtf is that all about? Well the NDP is new and at least, thank god, we're trying something NOW and not waiting for the whole damn thing to crumble. All that remains now is to get lunatics like Harper out of the Federal branch. Thank you Alberta for voting NDP!

[schocker]

Originally posted by FraserB
So we're going to punish people who work hard and sacrifice to get ahead, all while telling people it's fine to have no ambition or drive to better yourself since someone with those attributes will subsidize you.

People used to think that if they wanted more than they currently had, they found a way to make it work. Now, people just want more, but expect it to be either given to them or those who do have more to be punished for doing well.

Just one big union

[BigMass]

Originally posted by FraserB

So we're going to punish people who work hard and sacrifice to get ahead, all while telling people it's fine to have no ambition or drive to better yourself since someone with those attributes will subsidize you.

People used to think that if they wanted more than they currently had, they found a way to make it work. Now, people just want more, but expect it to be either given to them or those who do have more to be punished for doing well.

It's very tough to have a conversation when people have such a weak understanding of economics and sociology. There is almost nothing in your post that is correct, it would take pages to try and correct everything. Shit like, rich work hard, poor are lazy, people want to sit around and do nothing and get handouts from money that's stolen from rich people that work hard for it, etc. I don't even know where to begin with that.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


NDP stated pretty clearly that an immediate royalty review will take place

Also as I mentioned, the only way they are getting an extra 500 million in corporate revenue is if:
a) They increase it to 20%
b) Oil suddenly explodes to 150$ per barrel
c) unicorn sales go through the roof

They also stated that they wouldn't implement recommendations until oil prices recovered.

You also didn't point out that to fall inline with your claim that they are raising corp tax to 20% (not backed up by their platform anywhere) does not take any increase of corp taxable dollars into account and requires a steady rate of $6.7b taxable dollars a year. The budget piece you pull from the NDP site takes a year over year increase in taxable dollars into account.

[CapnCrunch]

On the plus side, if oil prices crash again and I lose my job, I can at least look forward to going on EI and getting a raise.

[Sugarphreak]

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[BigMass]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Despite your optimism about our diversification into wind farms and solar, I am still failing to see how they plan to collect 60% more corporate tax revenue

I agree it's not all rosy. No political party is going to have a magic wand to make things better. We might have to run a deficit to help stimulate the economy. And there is no better time while rates are at historic lows. To spend money in times of economic prosperity takes way resources from more efficient areas of the economy at an extremely high cost for minimal economic gain. When times get slow, like now, is when you ramp up spending. Your costs are low and you get the societal infrastructure you will need anyway while stimulating job growth, income, GDP, etc. To cut billions from healthcare, education and social programs now is asinine. When people compare the function of government to the function of your common household is to completely misunderstand how things work.

As for optimism, I have little optimism about a magic bullet. Wind or solar isn't going to solve everything. Increasing taxes isn't going to solve everything. It's going to take a little bit from every area to make things better. Things the PCs have completely failed at doing.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by pheoxs
The tax rate for Albertans earning less than $125,000 a year will stay at the current 10 per cent. Albertans who earn $125,000 to $150,000 annually will pay 12 per cent, and those who earn between $150,000 and $200,000 will pay 13 per cent. Albertans earning $200,000 to $300,000 will pay 14 per cent and those who earn over $300,000 will pay 15 per cent.

It is better to explain it this way.

The first $125,000 you earn is taxed at 10%
Your earnings between $125k and $150k are taxed at 12%
Your earnings between $150k and $200k are taxed at 13%
Your earnings between $200k and $300k are taxed at 14%
Anything above $300k is taxed at 15%

I hate it when people think because they made $126k that they think that their take home pay is automatically lower than if they were making $125k.

[FraserB]

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[sputnik]

Albertans need to realize that provincial NDP parties in western provinces are far more right-leaning than the federal NDP parties.

Even in Manitoba the NDP party under Gary Doer didn't really change much compared to under the PCs with Gary Filmon as premier. Ironically enough Gary Doer is now the Canadian ambassador to the US and is supporting Harper and the Keystone XL pipeline as well as anti-terrorism actions.

Alberta needs to relax and realize that not much will change and is better off with a new government that wants to prove itself to be better and not a government that just arrogantly retains the throne and doesn't do anything.

[Cos]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[BigMass]

Originally posted by FraserB


At the same time, you have to concede that minimum wage jobs are minimum wage for a reason, not just companies taking advantage of people. You also have to concede that a lot of people these days are of the mindset that a lot of things are "rights" when they aren't even close to it.

our system is rapidly changing. These concepts you speak of had real merit back in 1950 and made sense. These things no longer work and are starting to crack. It won't be that much further in the future when automation will eliminate a huge % of jobs. Not crap McDonalds jobs, but your job, Sugar's job, all our jobs. This isn't bad. This is GOOD. As a society we want to increase our technology where we no longer have to work in the traditional sense as slaves to sustain our basic needs. This is now unavoidable. The billions of people on earth that will no longer have a job will look for a new system to live under where their basic needs are provided for and their productivity and worth in life will change focus from flipping burgers, driving trucks, working in an office, towards mentoring, art, music, writing, volunteering, self improvement, meditation etc.

This is evident in the US where more and more people are on social programs like food stamps, disability, employment insurance, welfare etc. This isn't millions of people that just can't wait to bilk the system. There just isn't jobs to sustain an ever increasing population. It's simple math. More people plus less jobs will mean you either boost up your social safety net and figure out a system along the lines of a guaranteed income that does away with everything else (welfare, foodstamps) or we will move towards an ever increasing paradigm of riots, civil unrest and violence.