12th Ave Cycle Track Lane Insanity

[rage2]

Originally posted by Moonracer
speedog: Wow! Well said man

Not going to completely quote him, but the problem isn't catering to bikers, it's how it's implemented.

I'll just leave this here, easier than reposting the whole thing.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/northlan...41#post4456541

[bjstare]

Originally posted by rage2

Not going to completely quote him, but the problem isn't catering to bikers, it's how it's implemented.

This is what I came back to say.

I'm not anti-bike commuter. In fact, I'd guess that most people in the thread aren't strictly anti-bike commuter.

I'm against the shitty implementation of the bike lanes. I'm no expert, but there's got to be a way to do it better than it's been done in these pilot projects.

[speedog]

Originally posted by rage2

Not going to completely quote him, but the problem isn't catering to bikers, it's how it's implemented.

I'll just leave this here, easier than reposting the whole thing.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/northlan...41#post4456541

Will totally agree that the Northland Drive cycle lanes are ridiculous but then again, Northland Drive being a 6 lane divided roadway on it's own with additional left turn lanes is rather overkill as well. Why that was overbuilt like that is beyond anyone's understanding here.

[speedog]

Double post.

[rage2]

Originally posted by speedog
Will totally agree that the Northland Drive cycle lanes are ridiculous but then again, Northland Drive being a 6 lane divided roadway on it's own with additional left turn lanes is rather overkill as well. Why that was overbuilt like that is beyond anyone's understanding here.

It wasn't an overkill design, Northland Drive was a feeder to Crowchild, as well as the only access to the mall, Walmart, etc. With the cycle track in place, traffic volumes have dropped huge, as have businesses in the area. TBH I don't know how long Walmart is going to stick around there as it's pretty empty the last 12 months.

[speedog]

Originally posted by rage2

It wasn't an overkill design, Northland Drive was a feeder to Crowchild, as well as the only access to the mall, Walmart, etc. With the cycle track in place, traffic volumes have dropped huge, as have businesses in the area. TBH I don't know how long Walmart is going to stick around there as it's pretty empty the last 12 months.

It's overkill, I lived in West Dalhousie in the 80's and have been in and around Northland Mall for decades now and I have never once seen traffic volumes on Northland Drive that would necessitate a 7 lane roadway. Feeder to Crowchild - yeah but 53rd Street and Shag also do that quite well and it's not like Northland has a huge population base spilling directly on to it that can justify a 7 lane roadway. It's overkill but no more so than 4th Street NE north of 64th Ave being a 6-7 lane divided roadway for some of it's portion - I guess they were designed and built that way because of some imagined build-out that they'd be servicing that never really came to be.

[benyl]

The issue with Northland drive is the BS way it connects to Crowchild going either direction. If you are going west, you may as well use Shag, because you end up at the bridge anyway.

If you are going east, you might as well use Shag or Brisebois drive. No one uses it because it is slower.

[kenny]

The Northland Mall redevelopment includes a residential element that may add enough traffic in the area to justify the existing capacity of Northland Drive but until that is done in a few years, it is overkill. The mall has had low traffic for years, hence the redevelopment.

The fact that the addition of cycle tracks resulted in traffic dropping (presumably moving over to Shag instead) backs up the fact that there is sufficient road network capacity in the area.

[rage2]

Originally posted by benyl
The issue with Northland drive is the BS way it connects to Crowchild going either direction. If you are going west, you may as well use Shag, because you end up at the bridge anyway.

If you are going east, you might as well use Shag or Brisebois drive. No one uses it because it is slower.

I'm talking about the initial design, well before all the bridges were there. It was faster to get to east Dalhousie from Northland Drive than it is from Shaganappi. It was also faster to go to Edgemont by using Northland Drive then back onto Shaganappi, and vice versa. That whole section was always at capacity during rush hour and weekends.

I think it might be still faster today because of the backlog of traffic blocking the right turn onto Shaganappi during afternoon rush hour.

[speedog]

Back on topic, Twitter pic - note that picture poster labels himself as a "walking, cycling and transit nerd"...


» Click image for larger version

AM rush hour was reported to be 2-3 cyclists per minute - not bad for the first day I suppose.

[Kg810]

Originally posted by speedog
Back on topic, Twitter pic - note that picture poster labels himself as a "walking, cycling and transit nerd"...

AM rush hour was reported to be 2-3 cyclists per minute - not bad for the first day I suppose.

Lol

I drove down 12th Ave during the morning rush and saw one cyclist from 11st to 1st.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Haha, no freakin' way in hell is it anywhere near 2-3 per minute. I live on that road and walk along it both to and from work every single day in peak rush hour. I have not seen even close to that amount every minute, even in rush hour. I didn't even see 2-3 cyclists period on my entire walk in this morning down 12th ave. I walk it every day around 8-830AM.

Today for example, at around 8:15, I saw zero cyclists in the time it took me to walk 6 blocks.

12th Ave's pre-cycle track rush hour traffic was probably around 80-100 cars a minute with all 4 lanes open. Reducing it down to 1-2 lanes in some areas just so a few people can bike is absurd.

[benyl]

That's because most people are in the office by 8.

[flipstah]

Best statistics are 6:30-8AM and 3:45PM-5PM

[Moonracer]

[Mitsu3000gt]

I can only speak for my route, but traffic has always been lighter along 12th before 8AM than after. When I leave at 7:15-7:30 if I have to be in early, it always takes me less time to get in because traffic is light enough I don't need to use every crosswalk.

Same story coming home between 4 and 5 - no way is there 2-3 bikes per minute on a normal day. We will see today what the track is like at that time.

[clem24]

Originally posted by rage2

I'm talking about the initial design, well before all the bridges were there. It was faster to get to east Dalhousie from Northland Drive than it is from Shaganappi. It was also faster to go to Edgemont by using Northland Drive then back onto Shaganappi, and vice versa. That whole section was always at capacity during rush hour and weekends.

Oh yeah it was a shit show, and made worse by all the buses stopping there. Also the buses would stop in front of Churchill and it was down to 2 lanes in the PM. Before the bridge went in and when I lived in Edgemont, I always went through Northland to Crowchild and back and NEVER through Shag; it was definitely a very busy roadway.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by speedog
Back on topic, Twitter pic - note that picture poster labels himself as a "walking, cycling and transit nerd"...

Ya, now do the same thing in December and see how it is

[KrisYYC]

I live right off of Elbow Drive. I actually see a fair number of cyclists either riding on the road or on the sidewalk (like they shouldn't). Probably every time I'm on Elbow I see at least one cyclist within a few mins, during rush hour a lot more.

I'm surprised I haven't heard of any plans for a bike lane on Elbow. I know the #3 bus route that goes up and down is one of the busiest in the city. Maybe lack of space is an issue?

[killramos]

Just drove it from the Safeway to macleod. Grand total of 11 cyclists I saw in that distance. 4:30 pm

In addition to 3 full gridlocked lanes of car traffic. Conservatively 50 times as many cars as bikes. But only 75% of the lanes.

Oh and a couple of proper jackass purolator drivers who think their hazard lights excuse them from the no stopping signs in the right lane.

Resounding success, this pilot...

Gave a thumbs up and a honk to the fine gentlemen protesting the creation of the lanes!