$4000 engine rebuild from 4Kruzn Motorsports

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
Completely agree. You don't even need to have 962kid's level of knowledge to see that was some substandard work.

This.

Faulty part, assembly mistake, genuine error? You bet, builder gets a second chance.

This porting is fucking disgraceful. You can write 10 pages of excuses and possible explanations it's all irrelevant, none of it matters. This engine was assembled and whoever did it stared this abortion of a port job in the face while they did it. Conroy, an employee of Conroy who the fuck cares? This isn't a warranty issue, this is fraud. Flat out fraud, OP paid for porting and got this abomination.

Zhao Kan - "20% of the story" who gives a shit if we have 1% of it? Go ahead defend the porting, I'd love to hear it.

[mobius]

Originally posted by kdwebber


I chose to make this public because I gave Conroy every chance to make this right and he refused. He is too stubborn to admit that he was wrong. Only monetary compensation would have been sufficient. The workmanship inside that engine was disgraceful and under no circumstances would I let him touch a motor for me again. The best he could offer me was replacement parts which I have mentioned I took as there was no other alternative.

So you go to the store and buy an iPod, with factory warrantee only. You open it up and find that only half the screen works. You call up Apple and say, "Fuck this shit, give me my money back." Do they say, "Here you are sir, sorry for our screw-up."? No, they ask you to return the product to them so they can verify the issue and then they compensate you (or repair the issue, they don't give you a choice). Terrible analogy, but still the same principle.

Ultimately he is responsible for the product that leaves his shop and ends up in my car. That's what I paid good money for and did not receive. He doesn't get a pass because he might or might not have assembled that motor, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. I see it as professional accountability and he has none.

You didn't answer my question. Was it Conroy himself who did the work on your engine? You are right, overall he is responsible. I never said he gets a pass, but there is nothing professional about refusing to let him repair the mistake (which he may not have personally made).

What bothers me is that you have a passion for rotaries and not be disgusted by the pictures that I posted. Forget about the relationship you have with Conroy and just look at the pictures.

Is the porting ugly, sure. Probably works just as well as if he (or his employee) would have spent hours polishing it.

All I know is that it is not uncommon to re-use bearings with copper showing, if they are indeed still within spec. I also have heard that it is better to use a used factory fit bearing, than one that has been punched out and a new one installed (higher risk of a spun bearing).

As for everything else, my opinion means less than nothing because I don't have any experience in that area.

All in all (right or wrong), had the coolant seal not failed (which may or may not have even been anyone's fault), I would wager to bet that your engine would have run healthy and strong for as long as your could reasonably expect it to. Mazda spec (who has a shitty OEM track record anyway) or not.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by mobius
Is the porting ugly, sure. Probably works just as well as if he (or his employee) would have spent hours polishing it.

As for your completely absurd iPod analogy. The only way that makes any sense is if my iPod stopped working and when it was disassembled I found it was built out of peanut butter and raisins. What was found in this motor was shameful, end of story, full stop. There is no defending this type of craftsmanship.

The fact you think this engine would have "run healthy and strong for as long as you can reasonably expect" makes me sad, even someone with zero experience in rotary engines would know that's complete horseshit.

Your comments really upset me, part of the reason the rotary engine has such a bad rap is that enthusiasts have set the bar so low. We've become so accustomed to poor reliability and embarrassing craftsmanship that we don't demand more.

Whenever these rotary threads come up, people inevitably come in to argue black is white and defend this nonsense. Why not stand up and demand better?

[HiTempguy1]

So I'm confused, is this about the quality of the port job, or the problems with the motor?

As someone else said, you went with the lowest bidder. Get over the port job, its not part of the conversation unless the port job itself is causing issues. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but it is completely irrelevant to this conversation.

It keeps coming back to I completely understand why any business wouldn't want to deal with you; there is no placating you. People who read through these threads will see this, and then they will see the fact (as someone else alluded to) he has a 99.999999999% customer rating and blow you off as "that guy", impossible to please even while bending over backwards.

I also like another tech from another shop getting in on the slag-fest, classy (probably why no names or credentials are being posted).

[sr20s14zenki]

The sad thing these days, is that there is a lack of giveafuck from ANY tuner shop in calgary and area for the most part. I've heard good about Conroy, and its too bad that something like this happened. Ive seen/repaired absolute SHIT work from other "shops" around town, and its absolutely DISGRACEFUL. Seems to be the only way they want your business, is if you have 50-100k to drop with them, and then you MAY get something worth talking about. There no middle road anymore, its either shit, or ungodly costly.

I will be rebuilding my OWN rotary this year. Should be a fun adventure. Maybe i can get to a point where i can do it reasonably for other folks. We shall see. Im glad to be back in a rotary now, and excited to see what the future brings.


And skipping the die grinder across the rotor housing is hardly "not a big deal" Man...all kinds of sealing issues wit that.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Get over the port job, its not part of the conversation unless the port job itself is causing issues. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but it is completely irrelevant to this conversation.

Ya get over the fact you didn't get what you paid for, geez it's so irrelevant

Now what was I saying about setting that bar low!

[HiTempguy1]

I never said that. I said they are two seperate issues. Neither of which can be rectified due to OP's actions

[tehwegz]

Wow, I'm

I met Conroy in person once, nice guy and quite an enthusiast. He was interested in my Miata, as he wanted to swap a rotary in one. I considered two cars that he was selling, a FC RX7 and later a JDM Civic SiR. I also know one guy who had his FC's rotary done by him - haven't heard of any issues he's had other than the car around the motor.

From seeing the cars he deals with via Facebook, and the enthusiasm shown for RX7/8 and rotaries almost exclusively - I just don't see how it could have been his workmanship.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I never said that. I said they are two seperate issues. Neither of which can be rectified due to OP's actions

Separate issues? The build of this motor was garbage, that's a singular issue, looking at it any other way serves only to distract from the obvious. Again, faulty parts, genuine mistake in assembly? Sure builder gets a shot and the benefit of the doubt. That's not what this is. The porting is relevant because you don't need to look any further, it alone is reason enough to feel Like you've been cheated.

Someone put that motor together with that porting staring them right in the face, with the marks of where the die grinder walked up the surface of the rotor housing. Thats not a mistake, that's not an oversight. Someone saw it, didn't give a shit and was gambling on the fact the owner would never find out. In my opinion that's fraud.

[ekguy]

This is why I told my friend we would be learning how to rebuild rotaries...i'll be buying my second one within a year here hopefully.

I'd rather learn slow and build em myself then end up with work even remotely this bad...

[mobius]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

As for your completely absurd iPod analogy. The only way that makes any sense is if my iPod stopped working and when it was disassembled I found it was built out of peanut butter and raisins.

Or rather you disassembled it and found that they didn't clean up the solder joints. But it failed because of a manufacturing flaw in one of the chips (completely unrelated).

And since 'you' disassembled it, they would tell you to fuck off anyway.

The fact you think this engine would have "run healthy and strong for as long as you can reasonably expect" makes me sad, even someone with zero experience in rotary engines would know that's complete horseshit.

I'm sorry, can you prove that it wouldn't have? The engine 'failure' had nothing to do with the porting.

Is the porting sloppy? Sure. Is it acceptable? Likely not. If I were building the engine I would not have been satisfied with that porting job.

However, would it have likely worked? Yes. Unless you're tuning it to the bleeding edge, I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference in the porting.

Nearly everyone I know who has a rotary has had an engine assembled by 4Kruzn. I personally have one that has been running very well for 6+ years. I have no idea what the porting looks like or what the seal clearances are, but it has taken all the abuse that I've given it (including some pretty harsh detonations due to a tuning issue). I would not hesitate to have Conroy do my next rebuild.

Your comments really upset me, part of the reason the rotary engine has such a bad rap is that enthusiasts have set the bar so low. We've become so accustomed to poor reliability and embarrassing craftsmanship that we don't demand more.

Embarrassing craftsmanship is Mazda's motto when it comes to rotary engines

Is it really that we set the bar low? Or is it that we're left to piecing together a 'new' engine out of a bunch of old parts? Old parts that only get older and more worn. That is unless you have boat loads of money laying around, and then you can have new parts made at your whim.

In any case, you're still dancing around the issue with this thread. I still haven't seen anywhere where it says Conroy himself assembled/ported the motor. Even if he did, he has been racing/building rotaries since before I was even a gleam in my Father's eye, so I would have a hard time saying that he doesn't know what he is doing.

Yes, I realize that overall he is responsible for what comes out of his garage. It doesn't mean, however, that Conroy is deliberately defrauding anyone.

It also doesn't mean that every build to come out of his garage is shit, or that every build that will come out is shit.

If I have a co-worker who fucks up some electrical in someone's house because they are lazy/sloppy etc., does that mean that all the electrical that I have done/will do is also shit? Or that my boss has done/will do? I think not, we go in and repair it on our dime and ream out/fire the retard who screwed it up in the first place.

[rx7_turbo2]

You like sitting on the fence hey, don't want to burn the old bridge with Conroy maybe?

"Is the porting bad? Well I don't know, maybe sorta, kinda, not really, it doesn't matter anyhow, maybe it was an employee, my motor is strong........"

Here's the sticky wicket. Everyone thinks the engine in their car is great as long as it runs. Who's going to tear apart what they think is a strong running rotary? Most won't crack it open till it blows, at which time any evidence of a shitty build will be hidden by the carnage. It isn't until someone says screw it I'll eat the cost of this and tear apart a running motor just "to see" that you find out what's really going on. This isn't the first of these scenarios I've seen.

I love your jab at Mazda as well. Like its Mazdas fault whoever ported this engine had a seizure half way through, then if that wasn't bad enough ACTUALLY ASSEMBLED IT LIKE THAT

If your defence for this abomination is "Well maybe he didn't do it" you must surely see you're grasping at straws.

[MrSector9]

porting not polished does not bother me depending on what was talked about during the build, some people want things cheap and the finish work may have to suffer because of it.

The mark across the housing.... whoever decided to put that engine together AFTER they did that should be hung out to dry, Everyone makes mistakes in building engines at some point, do not try to hide it on a paying customer, fix it right or do not do it at all.

Seeing that alone will make me never mention this engine builders company to anyone.

[mobius]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
You like sitting on the fence hey, don't want to burn the old bridge with Conroy maybe?

Its called giving the benefit of the doubt for someone who has a long standing history in the rotary community. Why wouldn't I be one the fence? You've clearly jumped right on the hate wagon, so you must have much more information that I do, please enlighten me.

This is the problem with the online rotary community, and why I don't bother with Rx7Club anymore. It's like a bunch of hungry bitches tearing after any scrap of rotten meat they can find.

"Is the porting bad? Well I don't know, maybe sorta, kinda, not really, it doesn't matter anyhow, maybe it was an employee, my motor is strong........"

Nice try, but I clearly said the porting was bad. And then I explained how there could be more to this story.

Here's the sticky wicket. Everyone thinks the engine in their car is great as long as it runs. Who's going to tear apart what they think is a strong running rotary? Most won't crack it open till it blows, at which time any evidence of a shitty build will be hidden by the carnage. It isn't until someone says screw it I'll eat the cost of this and tear apart a running motor just "to see" that you find out what's really going on. This isn't the first of these scenarios I've seen.

A messy or crappy port job does necessarily equal a weak motor. Why would I tear apart my (what I know, not think) strong motor to look for a 'problem' that I have no symptoms of?

I love your jab at Mazda as well. Like its Mazdas fault whoever ported this engine had a seizure half way through, then if that wasn't bad enough ACTUALLY ASSEMBLED IT LIKE THAT

Reading comprehension fail, where did I mention porting and Mazda? What I was getting at was that Mazda themselves is full of catastrophic fail stories with their factory and reman engines, so it's not like they are setting the bar high.

If your defence for this abomination is "Well maybe he didn't do it" you must surely see you're grasping at straws.

I'm grasping at straws? Your attack is directed to one person based on one example of work (out of how many thousands of happy customers) that he may not have even done .

I know I don't know the whole story, but you must, so please enlighten me and I will hitch my horse right next to yours on the bandwagon.

[01RedDX]

.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by mobius
Why would I tear apart my (what I know, not think) strong motor to look for a 'problem' that I have no symptoms of?

Prove it's strength, how do you know you have no symptoms

Most people with engines that "run" will claim they're "strong". I've been involved in the tear down of multiple engines where the owners would claim everything was "strong" and "fine" then the tear down reveals substandard work. So the motor is ported and rebuilt properly and the owners inevitable response is "Oh Okay, I see, so that's what a rotary should feel like" It's like an epiphany. Here's a tip JUST BECAUSE A ROTARY RUNS DOESNT MAKE IT STRONG.

You want to give this abomination of an engine the benefit of the doubt (not surprising given you might have one in your car) I get it, you paid money and really, really want to believe this is just a one off. There are things I can give the benefit of the doubt on. What I've seen in these photos does not meet that criteria.

I'll agree with others that have posted. What was seen in these pictures is not alright, there is no justification that makes them right. In the past I've actually sent people to Conroy offering them an alternative to the even worse things I've seen from RX-7 Specialties. I'm kind of upset about that now.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
What of his claim that you are banned from RX-7 Specialties and what do you have to say about that?

You're not referring to me right?

If it was me I'd wear that ban like a badge of honor!!!

[01RedDX]

.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
No, I know, it's from the quoted post from 780 on page 1:

I would disagree with the quote. I think the fact Kyle has "seen the light" means he's actually put himself in a position to receive more help, and substantially better help. It's funny how that works.

[tomt64]

Originally posted by mobius

All in all (right or wrong), had the coolant seal not failed (which may or may not have even been anyone's fault), I would wager to bet that your engine would have run healthy and strong for as long as your could reasonably expect it to. Mazda spec (who has a shitty OEM track record anyway) or not.

So you are saying its a-ok to receive substandard work.
As long as it runs and he doesn't know the irons, bearings and housings are all not in spec... it doesn't matter!

I don't recall brand new 13b's coming off the Mazda assembly line leaking coolant into the rotor housing. I just hope that this is a lesson learned so he is much more precise in the future, I don't buy that ex-employee worked on it bullshit.

You guys can analyse this any way you want; ipod, home electrical work... whatever. Apples to oranges. Besides its not like they took apart a working, problem free engine just to be picky... it was leaking coolant ffs. Shit work revealed more shit work, caught red handed. Customer service is shit, this is the result. End of story.

"My engine works great!" Well thats just fantastic for you, this is not your amazing engine, this is a shit engine with shit quality control. QC is a thing of the past apparently. Conroy is responsible for what leaves his shop, bottom line. The pictures make me cringe. At this point he will say anything to control the damage to his 'reputation'.

Everyone jumping on Kyle saying he is the .0001% customers that always have a problem; if you had this shit build, you would take it up the arse and not deal with the problem at hand? This is why some people can cut corners and are still in business.