Tesla P85D Experiences

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2
The CLA doesn't have autopilot. It's the C class and up that gets it. I'll get benyl and his E63S Wagon that has it and we'll write up a full comparison. Shoot me a PM with your number and we'll figure out a time and place.

Can't wait. Truth be told I'm kinda interested in electric car as a daily driver, even if not a Tesla.

[B18C]

I got the Auto-pilot upgrade Thursday. Updated while I was at work and used it on deerfoot on the way home after work. Works great!

I love the new display. It totally makes sense with the auto-pilot features. The pre-auto-pilot guys will probably be upset as it must be a huge waste of space for them so that kind of sucks.

I have not used MB's auto-pilot features or any other car with similar features so I obviously cannot compare. That said, I'm really impressed with Tesla's auto-pilot and if the other car companies have something similar, we are all in for a treat.

In traffic, on Deerfoot, it worked flawlessly. I found acceleration/deceleration to be smooth and it kept in the lane really well. It did seem to like to hug the right lane marker more than I usually do. I'm not sure if it's because I tend to drive on the left side of the lane or if Tesla has tendency for the right side. Not a big deal, just a little weird.

I had my doubts about how well it would work on Country Hills Blvd as my car used to beep at me all the time will false lane departure warnings due to all the swiggly repair lines on the road. It did just fine. It had trouble on the exit ramp from Beddington to Country Hills and gets a bit squirrely at a couple intersections where I had to take over but overall I'm very impressed.

I was so impressed that I decided to take the family on an impromptu drive to Banff yesterday for the first time in probably 10+ years (I know I'm a terrible Calgarian. My oldest child is 6yo and he has never been to the mountains!). Used auto-pilot the entire way there. Only had to take over once on the way there and was flawless on the way back. We also got to test out the Auto-park feature. My wife thought I lost my mind and I squealed like a school girl as it was parking.

Emergency take-over can be a bit jerky. I wouldn't want to try on slippery roads. Regular take over, like when I want to take over steering, is pretty smooth. Doesn't take much pressure to override steering.

Overall, very impressed. I'm more sold on Tesla than ever. I've stated before that for me, the Model S is the absolute best car out there. It is so versatile and fun to drive, I would not trade it for any other car in the world - other than the P90DL. The power of OTA upgrades makes the car is ridiculously awesome. With the auto-pilot enabled software it's like I have a new car. The display is different, the sensors are more active (and seem more powerful), everything is just better. The best thing is, it is all just going to get better. That is something that you can't say about any other car out there.

Now, with all that said, the one thing that bothers me is the fact that the auto-pilot features are technically still in beta. How they announce a feature almost an entire year ago, demo it at their "D event" and still release it in beta is odd to me.

[rage2]

Thanks benyl and Tearin for demoing autopilot in your cars this afternoon. Very entertaining for me watching from the back seat!

[blairtruck]

what were the reason you had to take over one time on the trip to banff.

[rage2]

If I had to guess its the 70kmh construction zone right outside the first banff turnoff. There are no lane markers there. On the way back, no construction on eastbound TC1.

I just drove it yesterday too, except I had to pilot myself.

[Tearin]

Here's the link to the blog post on the test drive.

Autopilot Showdown Tesla P85D vs Mercedes E63S Wagon

[Tearin]

An interesting test of the two systems, one of which is hot off the presses from late last week. I've had a few more days of testing and reading of Tesla's claimed capabilities for the autopilot, and we definitely pushed the limits of what Tesla says it can do.

I think things like the instruction manual could have be better, before this got pushed out, as Beta testers have had the autopilot for a while, yet there seems to be easy errors for Tesla to have fixed, which haven't been done. The manual says autopilot cuts out at 145kph, yet 3 days of driving says it actually cuts out at 150kph. The car was supposed to have a hold mode at red light where after 3 seconds you have to reactivate the autopilot and cruise (and the old software had this for restarting the cruise). But, this only showed up once for us on the test drive, and it's never done it since (glitch or "feature")? In stop and go traffic, even after a long red light, the Tesla just picks right up again, no need to touch the cruise stick.

You also have to carefully discern from the manual what's a requirement vs what's a warning (and some are just suggestions I think). While the Mercedes seems like you did have to touch the wheel with a tiny bit of force at regular intervals (15 sec?) the Tesla only occasionally reminds us of this, and at least once, as a test, for 5 minutes on a straighter section of highway, I didn't touch the wheel, and the car never handed me back control nor pulled over (the manual says eventually the car will pull over and the hazards will turn on if we don't touch the wheel, but I've yet to see it happen). Maybe on the next road trip I'll try it to see how long it takes to kick in that safety feature.

Although on the test drive the Tesla made it 3/4 of the way around a 90 degree turn, from one street to another following a truck, in the past two days, I haven't been able to reproduce that as well as it did on the test drive. Most time it abruptly disconnects in the middle of the intersection, so it's definitely not a "feature".

My other disappointment is that, on highway entrances, I was hoping the lane change would allow it to merge a bit better, as I think some drivers might benefit from that feature. Typically, most good drivers are shoulder checking and are ready to merge as soon as they reach the dotted line, but the Tesla, even with the turn signal engaged early, uses at least 30m of the acceleration lane to check if the road is clear, and it even seems to merge too slowly onto an empty highway, which can use up a fair bit of a short merge lane. It can do aggressive lane changes when cruising on the highway and tuck itself into tight spots (I have "distance/time to follow" set at only 1 out of 7), likely as the sensors have been monitoring all the cars around the Tesla for a while, but it feels less aggressive when merging, perhaps as the sensors need time to re-sense cars after coming out of a cloverleaf or an off-ramp.

Much like Benyl, I really like it for stop and go traffic, it's really quite good, and I will probably use it then, and maybe even on some long drives, as with clearly marked highways, it can hold a lane better than I can (+/- 6" in daytime on a typical road), especially if I am trying to tune the radio, answer a call, etc. The rest of the time, I want to be the driver of the car, and probably won't opt to be chauffeured around.

But this is just first impressions, I'll drive it a few more days (as I was the newbie to autopilot when on the test drive), and I'll post my detailed impressions of it's pros and cons in a few days.

[Tearin]

Originally posted by B18C
I'm not sure if it's because I tend to drive on the left side of the lane or if Tesla has tendency for the right side. Not a big deal, just a little weird.

I'd say almost all the time on a normal width road it was right down the middle (meanders a bit more on really wide lanes - takes a bit longer to find middle), and right down the middle probably could feel off for some drivers depending on their preference (hugging left or right side of lane). Luckily I was able to be a passenger in my car when Benyl took it out, and it was easy to use the side mirrors to check the spacing of the lines to the tires, and as expected, we noticed that it was really close to being "down the middle". It would be surprising if they programmed it any other way. Given that the cars go to UK, Japan, etc, that's another reason I suspect the would have to aim for middle tracking; for simplicity of programming and the ability to travel with your car - for instance UK drivers going to France, and vice versa.

Having said that, maybe it can recognize a yellow vs a white line and biases closer to a white line in those conditions, as thats fits the description you gave. Were you in the fast lane on Deerfoot and on the way to Banff, or did you notice the right bias while also in the middle or the right lane. I'll try to test the yellow vs white lines as well. That's splitting hairs I'm sure as it tracks really nice and very close to middle, but I'm now curious as it would be some sophisticated programming if it did move a little more away from a yellow than a white line...Benyl was the first to notice that the Tesla sensors picked up on not just other cars as expected, but also on curbs (whether on left or right), so perhaps it biases a bit away from the lane that had the curb, or a k-rail/jersey barrier). We didn't notice any lane tracking bias at the same time the autopilot was indicating the curb, but we also weren't specifically looking to see if it did bias away from it. With three of us in the car, one of us probably would have noticed, but I'll test that again as well - bias away from curb or jersey barriers.

One odd thing that a manual pilot would usually do that the autopilot didn't, is that it doesn't veer away from other cars that might be "too" close to hugging your lane. I hope it would if it became a real threat as the sensors/system I think has been designed to take action to avoid contact, but until another car encoaches on my lane while I am in autopilot, I'll be hard to test (might ask the wife to test it with her car and the Tesla on the weekend tho). Basically on Deerfoot we passed a large pickup that was right next to our lane, and the Tesla just ignored it and tracked down the middle of the road. He wasn't on top of the dotted line, so maybe that is the trigger for the car to take action, but this will be interesting to see what happens the first time it occurs. The side sensors seems to have three range warnings and I don't think it went red, which is probably when autopilot would take some action, even if it was just audible ones. I'll need to read that in the manual, as there was a lot to digest in the half hour before we started the test. I'm sure it has happened to some Tesla driver out there already in the last half week, so I'm sure we already know if it does avoid a car that mildly encroaches on one's lane, or in one's blind spot warning zone (we know it does it well if he is ahead when he encroaches, but what about side by side potential contact). The last gen of Tesla's system, and also the new one, is really good at slowing down when cars start to pull in front of us, and its quick smooth resetting of the distance/time gap the driver has selected, so I imagine that it also might not react till the other car actually enters the predicted travel path of the Tesla, based on the cameras view of the lanes ahead. And I would like to see/learn what those safety margins are before it warns and/or takes action...I hope it's more than say 50cm (mirror clearance distance between two trucks?)...but even 50cm is going to be too close for most drivers to feel comfortable....

[B18C]

Originally posted by blairtruck
what were the reason you had to take over one time on the trip to banff.

It was where that lake/turnoff place is right before Canmore. Where the quarry or whatever is. There is a downhill part with a pretty big turn and the car didn't like it.

[B18C]

I have noticed the sensors show yellow when it picks up a curb and white for cars. I'm wondering if the is bias for being further from curbs. I'll try it tonight.

I'm really I impressed with autopilot in traffic. It's been awesome on Deerfoot. I'm dreading winter even more now when I can't use autopilot.

[Tearin]

I got the sensors to turn yellow on some curbs too, it seems to depend on how close you get to them, I think, as I also saw white for some curbs.

But I also figured out the bias issue. It has no bias to one side or the other when there are lines on both sides of the lane. But if the lines on the left aren't painted (say it's just a curb), and hence the display isn't showing a blue line on that side, the car drifts almost a foot over to the right to lock onto the remaining line, and be about one foot off the middle dotted lines (the one that would be between two lanes heading the same direction). Then when the lines on the left reappear, the car shifts right back to the middle. I didn't notice this as much till I was on a wider road tonight (Blackfoot S) that had the left hand yellow line appearing and disappearing. So it was more obvious to notice when it's a wider road. Oh, and when trying to dechiper the comments, all apply when one is in the left most (the fast) lane on a road. And the autopilot works well on larger 2 lane and up roads, as I've learned in the last few days that it seems hit and miss whether single lane roads have painted lines.

And I can also say it does not preferentially bias away from krail/jersey barriers nor yellow lines. In the left lane, heading south tonight on MacLeod, over Cemetary Hill where the lanes are quite narrow and the jersey barriers and yellow line are almost on top of each other, the car held the middle still, which is a little more left than I like at that location, as I probably cheat a bit too much away from the jersey barrier there...

[Tearin]

Originally posted by B18C


It was where that lake/turnoff place is right before Canmore. Where the quarry or whatever is. There is a downhill part with a pretty big turn and the car didn't like it.

That's Lac des Arc and the Exshaw cement and the limestone plant at Seebe. It's a tight corner for sure, and that IS NOT a good place to have the car decide to give you back control IMO - not a lot of time to react before you are into the median w momenturm carrying you towards oncoming traffic. Hmm...I think it has new pavement there, and I think the lines are painted properly....any idea why it turned off, as this is exactly the type of thing that worries me.

I had the car flying around cloverleafs and offramps (while having hands at 3 and 9 ready to take over) the last couple of days, and it's never flinched even a little bit, but if I'm in the middle of that corner (or similar) at Lac des Arcs and it does a "Crazy Ivan" on me... then to me this autopilot might be more gimmicky and for show, than usable.

Can you elaborate on the situation as it broke free....any chance you were also turning the wheel hard enough to turn off autopilot...had you been touching the wheel so it knew you were there as I may be imagining this (I'll know better in a few more days), but I actually think that the tighter the corner the more it seems to want to remind me to touch it (put a bit of force onto the wheel)... did it give you the red warning to take over the steering and also the beeps, as it disengaged (which means you hadn't actually turned it off with your hands by giving it more or less turning force that the autopilot was using)...just the engineer in me guessing at things that might have caused it to turn off...

[supe]

Here is another endorsement by a notable figure in the industry.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ferrar...155608987.html

FERRARI BOSS: Elon Musk is 'the greatest'

killramos, thoughts?

[killramos]

Originally posted by supe

killramos, thoughts?

Posting the entire article you were so happy to quote.

Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne is a self-proclaimed fan of Tesla CEO Elon Musk.
"I'm a phenomenal fan of Elon Musk," Marchionne said in a CNBC interview on Wednesday. "I think he's the greatest.

"He's a disrupter, and I think he is a great marketer. And I love him."

Ferrari opened for trading on Wednesday at $60 a share, or 15% above its initial-public-offering price of $52.

Ferrari's sales are growing, but slowly. There are not that many new Ferrari customers each year.

Marchionne suggested that wealthy individuals who should be buying Ferraris had been buying the wrong cars.

That turned into a dig at Tesla.

"I'm not going to make derogatory remarks about the competition, but if you have to wait over 12 months to get a car, people have a tendency in some cases to go someplace else," he said.

Tesla is known to struggle to deliver on time.

But as for Musk himself, Marchionne had only good things to say on Wednesday, repeating, "I think he's a great marketer."

To caption he called Musk a great marketer, not something anyone on here has every disputed. Honestly i think he could sell shit in a box and people would still pay for it. Kudos to him.

Second he implies that people buying his cars shouldn't be, that they should be buying Ferraris. That its ridiculous to wait around for a year for a car to arrive.

Not exactly a glowing endorsement of his company or his cars...

PS: Sorry Tearin et all for coming back in and muddying your thread, I'm done arguing about Tesla on here. But if Supe wants to goad me into pointing out his stupidity I will do that ( hopefully without trashing the cars to much ).

[supe]

If you ask me, someone of his stature recognizing Tesla as "competition" is an endorsement, keeping in mind the very low volume of cars Tesla is selling right now.

[01RedDX]

.

[killramos]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


OK, and can you please explain why you think Sergio Marchionne is an idiot?

Can you explain where I said that he was?



edit:

Oh so you now say that Sergio Marchionne thinks Elon Musk is a Hero?Because of one very pointed endorsement?

Might want to be careful about which words you are putting in peoples mouths.

anyhow pce

[01RedDX]

.

[killramos]

Originally posted by 01RedDX

Anyhoo, pce (thought you were done with this?)

[B18C]

You can get your car to fly through cloverleafs? Mine always warns me and "keep my hands on the wheel" and then will eventually tell me to take over. This is on very clearly marked ramps too.

As for the Exshaw cement and the limestone plant at Seebe situation, I suspected it wasn't liking the situation a whole bunch. I was coming down the hill. It took the right turn like a champ but then as I was winding past the lake with the road turning left with a more steep down slope and it went very quickly from "keep hands on the wheel" to "emergency takeover".

It felt like the car might have a problem with the turn and I was ready for it with my hands on the wheel. It seemed like I was going pretty fast for the amount the road turned so I was getting ready to take over anyways.

I'm getting more comfortable with the autopilot now and have been pretty good at sensing situations that it doesn't like. Mainly sharp turns and intersections where the lanes on either side don't line up well where there is no car to follow.